Comments on: Family fude..

Family fude..

KimmishKim — Thu, 27 Sep 2001 01:19:54 -0800

Family fude.. to fly, or not to fly? That is the question.. mother and daughter have debate over flying the American flag.. sad sad sad world it is today.. well.. at least her daughter has good sense..

By: skallas

skallas — Thu, 27 Sep 2001 01:25:36 -0800

sad sad sad world it is today Sad why? They're two people with two different opinions. They worked out a compromise. Sounds like a win/win situation. Or are you saying its sad if someone doesn't want to fly the flag?

By: KimmishKim

KimmishKim — Thu, 27 Sep 2001 01:28:06 -0800

it is sad.. yes.. that her mother would say that to her daughter.. and that she'd try to inforce thoes ideas on her.. i give props to her daughter for standing up to her though

By: KimmishKim

KimmishKim — Thu, 27 Sep 2001 01:29:23 -0800

and yes.. its sad that someone wouldnt want to.. im not saying shes wrong.. but i think its sad.. and i dont agree with what she said..

By: skallas

skallas — Thu, 27 Sep 2001 01:45:26 -0800

Considering mom respected her daughter's views and let her fly her own flag I don't see a problem. Considering freedom of speech/expression is protected in this country I don't see a problem with not flying it. The article is about the many meanings of a nationalistic symbol and how people interpret it differently. If you see someone who doesn't fly the flag as 'sad' I do believe you're the one with the problem, not mom. I don't see what's so patriotic about conformity and ending government criticism. Patriotism is just loyalty to your country, you can be loyal and disagree at the same time. Try it sometime, you might like it.

By: twistedonion

twistedonion — Thu, 27 Sep 2001 01:56:23 -0800

and yes.. its sad that someone wouldnt want to.. im not saying shes wrong.. but i think its sad.. and i dont agree with what she said.. I think it's sad that you feel people need to prove their devotion and loyalty to their nation by flying a flag. A flag is nothing - it's the people who make up the community. I think it's sad when people feel they need to fly a flag just so other people will believe they are a patriot. Conformity gets you nowhere. Just look at North Belfast these days - the worst rioting in 20 years, and they all so proudly fly their flags

By: netsirk

netsirk — Thu, 27 Sep 2001 01:58:51 -0800

kimmish, i think you're missing the point. the mother is not enforcing anything on the daughter. mum and daughter are both entitled to their own opinions. they both express their opinions, and get on with their lives. that's how it should be.

By: hincandenza

hincandenza — Thu, 27 Sep 2001 02:04:01 -0800

It's spelled 'feud', not 'fude'. Just fyi...

Kimmish, that's just a crap link. The "article"- such as it is- is full of strawmen and ad hominem attacks and cheap shots and other lousy rhetorical devices of the weak and insipid. These Nationalistic Review yahoos ("Ann Coulter, call your office") are publishing this crap daily- pretty much the whole right-wing cabal from Michael Kelly to the Washington Times (whose Greg Pierce slammed this same Katha Pollitt op-ed in Tuesday's Washington Times- these right-wing jihads are well-organized!) is up in arms over any signs of dissent or debate. It's absolute jingoistic Nationalist bullshit, and unthinking uncritical worship of one's national leadership or cheap symbolism and platitudes is stupid and dangerous. It pisses me off obviously....

and that she'd try to inforce thoes ideas on her

"Inforce thoes [sic] ideas"? She's her freakin' mom, what else is she going to do?

In the end, mercifully, a mother-daughter compromise ensues: "I tell her she can buy a flag with her own money and fly it out her bedroom window, because that's hers, but the living room is off-limits." How's that for tolerance?

Pretty damn good, I'd say. Her mom did say her daughter could buy her own flag, and fly it in her own bedroom (even though of course it's her parents home)- I'd say that's the perfect tack to take with a child whose views differ from your own. Give them the freedom to express those views but you don't have to subsidize it or support it as if you agree or approve, or that something's wrong in the universe if every single person doesn't agree 100%- a good lesson to teach, methinks.

By: hincandenza

hincandenza — Thu, 27 Sep 2001 02:10:31 -0800

me, just above: Kimmish, that's just a crap link.

Let me rephrase that: your decision to link it wasn't crap; rather, I mean that the article itself is crap. Re-reading what I just posted, I wanted to clear that up so there are no hurt feelings. Not attacking you, KK, just those doofuses at National Review et al. :)

Completely unrelated aside: has "jingoistic" become the new "gravitas" (that must-have buzzword in favor for the next week or two)?

By: netsirk

netsirk — Thu, 27 Sep 2001 02:23:28 -0800

has "jingoistic" become the new "gravitas" hahahaha! i think you are right, hincandenza!

By: pracowity

pracowity — Thu, 27 Sep 2001 02:24:26 -0800

> Completely unrelated aside: has "jingoistic" become the > new "gravitas" (that must-have buzzword in favor for > the next week or two)? Use chauvinistic for spice, and to remind people that male chauvinism is just one kind of chauvinism. [And buzzword is a buzzword.]

By: revbrian

revbrian — Thu, 27 Sep 2001 02:30:34 -0800

[has "jingoistic" become the new "gravitas" ] It's the new paradigm!

By: Postroad

Postroad — Thu, 27 Sep 2001 02:45:35 -0800

all our flags are made in China. Let's hear it for the American unemployed worker.

By: stavrosthewonderchicken

stavrosthewonderchicken — Thu, 27 Sep 2001 03:39:48 -0800

Now, me, I was thinking fude=food and hoping for a nice, juicy all-in-the-family cannibalism link, by jingo!

By: toddshot

toddshot — Thu, 27 Sep 2001 04:15:26 -0800

To me, the fact that a mother and daughter can have that discussion is what's right with this country. And the compromise they arrived at was about the most rational one that could be hoped for. On another note, I did not at all like the implication in the article that, since the mother wanted to wear a symbol of global unity, there was 'no hope' for her. Sad.

By: johnnyboy

johnnyboy — Thu, 27 Sep 2001 04:17:31 -0800

Jingoistic is in danger of becoming the new xenophobic

By: asok

asok — Thu, 27 Sep 2001 04:21:14 -0800

stars and stripes is the new black?

By: dogmatic

dogmatic — Thu, 27 Sep 2001 04:32:57 -0800

all our flags are made in China. Let's hear it for the American unemployed worker. There's a reason for that, Postroad...We can't pay Americans $.10/hour to make flags here.

By: piskycritters

piskycritters — Thu, 27 Sep 2001 06:00:33 -0800

all our flags are belong to China. Hmm...I was actually getting tired of all the insipid media attention being spilled out over our own homegrown flag makers. I had also forgotten that flag sales are usually tax-exempt. Those interested in more vexillogical discourse can go here.

By: espada

espada — Thu, 27 Sep 2001 06:05:18 -0800

Is anyone else getting sick of commentators commenting on other commentator's comments, in this case even stretching it into a full column?

By: rushmc

rushmc — Thu, 27 Sep 2001 06:23:47 -0800

Is anyone else getting sick of commentators commenting on other commentator's comments ::: looks around and wonders if you realize where you are :::

By: Fenriss

Fenriss — Thu, 27 Sep 2001 07:20:29 -0800

we should have been supporting "the forces in the Muslim world who call for education, social justice, women's rights, democracy, civil liberties and secularism." Where, exactly, those forces are to be found in poor, ruined Afghanistan, Pollitt does not deign to say. Very well, then. I will.

By: Irontom

Irontom — Thu, 27 Sep 2001 07:41:06 -0800

A flag is nothing Actually, a flag is something. Something huge. It's a symbol - and symbols are all about what people invest in them. Just think about the bald eagle - is it a noble animal that presents a majestic image for a mighty nation, or is it just a carrion eater that feeds in large part by robbing other birds?

By: wackybrit

wackybrit — Thu, 27 Sep 2001 07:41:22 -0800

I don't think it's so immoral not to fly your country's flag.. how many people in England fly the English flag? (or, better, the European one?) I don't even know where to buy a proper full sized flag. A British National Party store?

By: normy

normy — Thu, 27 Sep 2001 07:44:14 -0800

I'm not familiar with National Review, is this twisted diatribe by a vitriolic thought policeman the usual standard of writing to be found there?

By: chino

chino — Thu, 27 Sep 2001 08:06:12 -0800

I assumed that "fude" was a clever pun on the "Fear, Uncertainty, Doubt" meme that's been floating around in a whole new context since 9.11. Alas.

By: holgate

holgate — Thu, 27 Sep 2001 08:07:33 -0800

::: looks around and wonders if you realize where you are ::: We don't get paid for it, though ;) normy: the National Review exists for lesser right-wing hacks to rehash articles from The Nation in a sarcastic tone of voice. That's all.

By: dhartung

dhartung — Thu, 27 Sep 2001 09:54:08 -0800

normy, so deadpan. I can't stand Usenet anymore. I used to frequent a group called alt.true-crime, which had interesting stuff on, well, true crimes, then Chandra/Condit came around, and that brought in a lot of new people who started crossposting to alt.politics.rush-limbaugh and other places, and now it's 60% bloviation on the war -- nothing to do with crime at all. None of the extremists (on either side) seem to care that they've trashed another group and expanded the ditto universe to yet more unwelcome territory. There was another web forum that seemed to have a good balance of politically savvy people but since the attacks it's become Yet Another Free Republic Outpost and I just got done with a thread trashing Chelsea Clinton -- who never did anything to any one of these f*cks -- with the most obscene commentary about her parentage and sex life (and they call us Bush-haters). The very concept of taking a powder on all this partisan stuff is cast aside -- there's a war on! Salute and shut up with your opposition stuff! The Democrats will be swept away in the upcoming elections now that they've proven how craven and untrustworthy they are! Remember this whole terrorist thing was Clinton's fault! Hey, stop criticizing the US, the US military, or any aspect of our foreign policy, you traitor -- oh, wait, you're blaming Clinton, well have at it! In other words, it's getting to be a pretty damn ugly world out there.

By: Fofer

Fofer — Thu, 27 Sep 2001 12:09:16 -0800

Strange, today's New York Times has an article entitled " Deciding Whether to Fly," in which a mother and daughter agonize over a different type of decision. (Note, link requires free registration.)

By: grrarrgh00

grrarrgh00 — Thu, 27 Sep 2001 14:11:58 -0800

Argh. OK, I dearly love and enjoy Metafilter, and now I have to de-lurk to comment on this article. I know Ross Douthat, the author of the piece, and while I didn't know he wrote for the superconservative National Review, the fact doesn't surprise me in the least. Ross is a nice enough guy in his own right, but I promise you, God gave him the most patronizing-sounding voice of all time, and he's somehow managed to hone his literary voice to a pitch-perfect imitation of the original. The utter, almost pungent cockiness of his tone, on display in this article, drives me absolutely up the wall. I've long gotten over people who like to say anything for the pure edginess of the act. But Ross is special. He knows he creates fresh enemies at every clause and punctuation mark and he keeps writing, not because he wants to awaken the world to something revolutionary, but because he enjoys hearing the sound of that hackneyed, backward-thinking, God-forsaken, patronizing voice of his!!! It's like the tell-tale heart or something.

By: y2karl

y2karl — Thu, 27 Sep 2001 21:39:20 -0800

hincandenza, dhartung and grrarrrgh00 all get props from me. That whole Kumbaya title features elite and effete old money Republicans tilting at windmills of their own device ala Wm F Buckley.. Like half the country, I saw it all live and have been glued to the TV, radio and the Net ever since. The way the rightwingers have all crawled out from under a FreeRepublican rock to slag the Clintons and the liberalsis just repulsive. Ann Coulter--the last word in Republibimbo Feminazi--couldn't eulogize Barbara Olson without taking another cheap shot at Hillary. I have no love for Wm. J Clinton, the previous (Eisenhower) Republican incumbent, but, please... I checked out the Smudge Report right after the attack and all the Bush bashing sites had gone down or were flying the flag--while over at Free Republic they were still obsessing about the Clintonian weiner. Cri-yi... And you ought to see how they're howling about Susan Sontag's piece over at The New Yorker forum. And on Art Bell, the insomniac trucker/trailer trash verdict is in: it's them Ay-rabs...While Mr. Paranormal Doomsday Du Jour lines up the year's supply of food and batteryless radio. ads...again...America: love it or lump it, by Jingo!

By: aaron

aaron — Fri, 28 Sep 2001 00:59:03 -0800

the National Review exists for lesser right-wing hacks to rehash articles from The Nation in a sarcastic tone of voice. That's all.

Okay, I'll bite. Where do the quality right-wing writers go?

By: pracowity

pracowity — Fri, 28 Sep 2001 01:11:27 -0800

> Okay, I'll bite. Where do the quality right-wing writers go? Name some.

By: stavrosthewonderchicken

stavrosthewonderchicken — Fri, 28 Sep 2001 02:18:00 -0800

Hell? *ducks*