Comments on: Crystal cMoy Freeform Headphone Amp
http://www.metafilter.com/115174/Crystal-cMoy-Freeform-Headphone-Amp/
Comments on MetaFilter post Crystal cMoy Freeform Headphone AmpSun, 22 Apr 2012 14:13:23 -0800Sun, 22 Apr 2012 14:13:23 -0800en-ushttp://blogs.law.harvard.edu/tech/rss60Crystal cMoy Freeform Headphone Amp
http://www.metafilter.com/115174/Crystal-cMoy-Freeform-Headphone-Amp
Making a crystal cMoy freeform headphone amp: <a href="http://runawaybrainz.blogspot.com/2011/12/mystery-project.html">1</a> <a href="http://runawaybrainz.blogspot.com/2011/12/mystery-project-update-1.html">2</a> <a href="http://runawaybrainz.blogspot.com/2011/12/mystery-project-update-3-time-vampire.html">3</a> <a href="http://runawaybrainz.blogspot.co.uk/2012/04/audio-crystal-cmoy-freeform-headphone.html">4!</a>post:www.metafilter.com,2012:site.115174Sun, 22 Apr 2012 13:43:24 -0800jjraydiyelectronicsampaudioheadphonesBy: mccarty.tim
http://www.metafilter.com/115174/Crystal-cMoy-Freeform-Headphone-Amp#4307191
Very cool! I love seeing the history of electronics tinkering before things got more streamlined. <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HrG98HJ3Z6w">Like this.</a>comment:www.metafilter.com,2012:site.115174-4307191Sun, 22 Apr 2012 14:13:23 -0800mccarty.timBy: mccarty.tim
http://www.metafilter.com/115174/Crystal-cMoy-Freeform-Headphone-Amp#4307193
I mean, what people did before PCBs/breadboards.comment:www.metafilter.com,2012:site.115174-4307193Sun, 22 Apr 2012 14:13:48 -0800mccarty.timBy: rowancluster
http://www.metafilter.com/115174/Crystal-cMoy-Freeform-Headphone-Amp#4307194
Really cool, I wish I could buy hardware like that. I'm also somewhat fascinated by the extremely poor grammar by this guy.comment:www.metafilter.com,2012:site.115174-4307194Sun, 22 Apr 2012 14:18:46 -0800rowanclusterBy: delmoi
http://www.metafilter.com/115174/Crystal-cMoy-Freeform-Headphone-Amp#4307199
I would have added more LEDs. Maybe something that would change colors depending on the stereo balance, or if you wanted to add more chips you could have different colors or multiple indicators depending on the frequencies present in the signalcomment:www.metafilter.com,2012:site.115174-4307199Sun, 22 Apr 2012 14:22:20 -0800delmoiBy: benito.strauss
http://www.metafilter.com/115174/Crystal-cMoy-Freeform-Headphone-Amp#4307216
I've not read the article, only looked at the pictures. So I don't yet know what it does but I already want one.comment:www.metafilter.com,2012:site.115174-4307216Sun, 22 Apr 2012 14:46:51 -0800benito.straussBy: Thorzdad
http://www.metafilter.com/115174/Crystal-cMoy-Freeform-Headphone-Amp#4307217
That is seriously cool. Beautiful work. I'd love to have one of those on my desk.
Sadly, it appears not all of his pictures are working. There seem to be blank spaces.comment:www.metafilter.com,2012:site.115174-4307217Sun, 22 Apr 2012 14:49:29 -0800ThorzdadBy: hanoixan
http://www.metafilter.com/115174/Crystal-cMoy-Freeform-Headphone-Amp#4307218
This would make a fantastically rugged guitar pedal housing.comment:www.metafilter.com,2012:site.115174-4307218Sun, 22 Apr 2012 14:50:47 -0800hanoixanBy: GuyZero
http://www.metafilter.com/115174/Crystal-cMoy-Freeform-Headphone-Amp#4307231
Does it dissipate heat at all?comment:www.metafilter.com,2012:site.115174-4307231Sun, 22 Apr 2012 15:10:53 -0800GuyZeroBy: GuyZero
http://www.metafilter.com/115174/Crystal-cMoy-Freeform-Headphone-Amp#4307235
So on the last page he mentioned the heat issue - it doesn't dissipate heat but it doesn't generate much either.comment:www.metafilter.com,2012:site.115174-4307235Sun, 22 Apr 2012 15:15:27 -0800GuyZeroBy: localroger
http://www.metafilter.com/115174/Crystal-cMoy-Freeform-Headphone-Amp#4307241
<i>I wish I could buy hardware like that.</i>
Would you be willing to pay over $1,000 for a headphone amp? Because that's what it would cost.comment:www.metafilter.com,2012:site.115174-4307241Sun, 22 Apr 2012 15:19:50 -0800localrogerBy: KGMoney
http://www.metafilter.com/115174/Crystal-cMoy-Freeform-Headphone-Amp#4307250
Localroger, are you referring to the labor involved? Because it looks like the parts are all pretty inexpensive.comment:www.metafilter.com,2012:site.115174-4307250Sun, 22 Apr 2012 15:26:08 -0800KGMoneyBy: Hither
http://www.metafilter.com/115174/Crystal-cMoy-Freeform-Headphone-Amp#4307252
I like his ideas. I hope the design doesn't pick up too much noise or hum though. Its not shielded and all the wires are forming big loops.comment:www.metafilter.com,2012:site.115174-4307252Sun, 22 Apr 2012 15:31:03 -0800HitherBy: localroger
http://www.metafilter.com/115174/Crystal-cMoy-Freeform-Headphone-Amp#4307254
KGM yes, this is basically a piece of art that happens to also perform an electronic function. Even if he was making identical units all day long with jigs, you would be looking at ten to twenty hours of labor to build something like this. Since it's a prototype he probably invested more like 50 hours. For production he would also have to source some parts that might be hard to find in quantity, such as jacks that can be sealed.
This is skilled labor, and the rule of thumb in industry is that it costs about four times what you pay an employee to set them up for work. I've actually set the company I work for up to manufacture a few small things (we use laser cut acrylic enclosures over circuit boards but the effect is eerily similar) and you would not believe the prices we charge -- and get -- for those little custom boxes.comment:www.metafilter.com,2012:site.115174-4307254Sun, 22 Apr 2012 15:34:41 -0800localrogerBy: ardgedee
http://www.metafilter.com/115174/Crystal-cMoy-Freeform-Headphone-Amp#4307259
<a href="http://www.metafilter.com/115174/Crystal-cMoy-Freeform-Headphone-Amp#4307231" title="GuyZero wrote in comment #4307231">></a> <i>Does it dissipate heat at all? </i>
It doesn't really have to. The <a href="http://gilmore2.chem.northwestern.edu/projects/showproj.php?file=cmoy2_prj.htm">original CMoy amp</a> is, as speaker amps go, pretty weak. Maybe a couple hundred milliwatts if you're pushing it hard. It's designed for powering headphones, which are a pair of speakers about an inch from your ears -- most headphones don't need much power.
The circuit elements in the acrylic cube have a lot of space between them. As the builder notes, the resin got hotter while initially setting than the amp has in operation.comment:www.metafilter.com,2012:site.115174-4307259Sun, 22 Apr 2012 15:39:31 -0800ardgedeeBy: Grimgrin
http://www.metafilter.com/115174/Crystal-cMoy-Freeform-Headphone-Amp#4307273
localroger: I don't know. While I agree wouldn't be able to manufacture exactly that unit for anything like a reasonable price, if you used stamped copper wiring with through holes, machine bent and cut components, and an assembly line process you could probably get the total hours per unit down significantly.
Of course then you have to be selling it in large quantities to make all the setup worthwhile.comment:www.metafilter.com,2012:site.115174-4307273Sun, 22 Apr 2012 15:49:11 -0800GrimgrinBy: delmoi
http://www.metafilter.com/115174/Crystal-cMoy-Freeform-Headphone-Amp#4307306
<blockquote><i>Localroger, are you referring to the labor involved? Because it looks like the parts are all pretty inexpensive.</i></blockquote>
You said you wanted to buy it, not buy the parts and make it yourself. I don't know if it would take 50 hours of work to make a second one, now that he already knows all the steps (and can re-use the mold pattern, etc) $100-$200/hr seems like a reasonable rate to charge for that kind of work.
You could probably mass produce something like in china that pretty cheaply but things are much more expensive when they're not mass produced.comment:www.metafilter.com,2012:site.115174-4307306Sun, 22 Apr 2012 16:13:44 -0800delmoiBy: 2N2222
http://www.metafilter.com/115174/Crystal-cMoy-Freeform-Headphone-Amp#4307311
Peer to peer?
The method and end result looks cool enough. Kind of like wiring up a circuit the way it looks on a schematic.comment:www.metafilter.com,2012:site.115174-4307311Sun, 22 Apr 2012 16:18:21 -08002N2222By: localroger
http://www.metafilter.com/115174/Crystal-cMoy-Freeform-Headphone-Amp#4307328
<i>You could probably mass produce something like in china</i>
Yes. Mass production involves tooling, and tooling is expensive; to do the kind of stuff Grimgrin suggests would set you back at least $100K, but you only pay for the tooling once, whereas you pay for the assembly labor for every unity ou produce, so if you make enough units the tooling cost becomes insignificant. The problem with this is your product is no longer unique. Let's face it, one big reason we all wish we had this thing is <i>it'sthe only amp like it in the world</i>. Once you tool up and start selling 'em at Wal-Mart, it's not nearly as much fun to have.comment:www.metafilter.com,2012:site.115174-4307328Sun, 22 Apr 2012 16:32:41 -0800localrogerBy: rowancluster
http://www.metafilter.com/115174/Crystal-cMoy-Freeform-Headphone-Amp#4307331
<em>You could probably mass produce something like in china that pretty cheaply but things are much more expensive when they're not mass produced.</em>
What I meant: I wish hardware like this was (mass) produced instead of all the crap that's out there.comment:www.metafilter.com,2012:site.115174-4307331Sun, 22 Apr 2012 16:36:30 -0800rowanclusterBy: delmoi
http://www.metafilter.com/115174/Crystal-cMoy-Freeform-Headphone-Amp#4307346
I don't really think you'd need much tooling to make this. Apple and Foxconn use a manual process to do the assembly for the iPhone because it's more flexible and they don't need to spend a lot of time tooling - it means they can go from design to production really quickly.
The process would be the same as what this guy did, but you pay maybe $2-4/hr, rather then $100-$200. So instead of $1,000 it costs $20. Also, you wouldn't need people as much skill to do the sanding/polishing. You would probably retail it for like $100, though because how many people buy headphone amps?comment:www.metafilter.com,2012:site.115174-4307346Sun, 22 Apr 2012 16:43:54 -0800delmoiBy: ardgedee
http://www.metafilter.com/115174/Crystal-cMoy-Freeform-Headphone-Amp#4307355
> <em>how many people buy headphone amps?</em>
Seriously? <a href="http://head-fi.org">Thousands of people</a>.comment:www.metafilter.com,2012:site.115174-4307355Sun, 22 Apr 2012 16:51:09 -0800ardgedeeBy: idiopath
http://www.metafilter.com/115174/Crystal-cMoy-Freeform-Headphone-Amp#4307369
Where he mentions "peer to peer" wiring, and I am thinking he probably means "point to point" wiring.comment:www.metafilter.com,2012:site.115174-4307369Sun, 22 Apr 2012 16:59:31 -0800idiopathBy: caddis
http://www.metafilter.com/115174/Crystal-cMoy-Freeform-Headphone-Amp#4307374
Holy crap! That is awesome.comment:www.metafilter.com,2012:site.115174-4307374Sun, 22 Apr 2012 17:00:28 -0800caddisBy: gen
http://www.metafilter.com/115174/Crystal-cMoy-Freeform-Headphone-Amp#4307456
As someone who recently bought an <a href="http://nwavguy.blogspot.jp/2011/07/o2-headphone-amp.html">Objective2 headphone amp</a>, this is an impressive piece of art work.comment:www.metafilter.com,2012:site.115174-4307456Sun, 22 Apr 2012 18:01:06 -0800genBy: gen
http://www.metafilter.com/115174/Crystal-cMoy-Freeform-Headphone-Amp#4307470
delmoi: jfyi, the headphone category of electronics is currently exploding in popularity, most obviously with the popularity of the Beats products, but all headphone manufacturers are releasing more products, higher-quality products, etc. The high end used to be ~$500 but has now crept way over ~$1000-5000 depending on what you want.
The new breed of headphones, amps, and DACs are a revelation: you'll hear stuff that was in your music that you had never heard before. Two good resources are <a href="http://www.innerfidelity.com/content/innerfidelitys-wall-fame">Innerfidelity's Wall of Fame</a> and <a href="http://www.headfonia.com/">Headfonia</a> (aside from Head-fi.org.) DIYers should head over to <a href="http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/headphone-systems/">DIYaudio</a> or <a href="http://www.anythingbutipod.com/forum/">anythingbutipod</a>.
And your financials are pretty close I think. A regular cMoy is about $60 in an Altoids tin. If someone was to build this crystal cMoy in bulk, I think $100 or so is about right.comment:www.metafilter.com,2012:site.115174-4307470Sun, 22 Apr 2012 18:08:24 -0800genBy: 2N2222
http://www.metafilter.com/115174/Crystal-cMoy-Freeform-Headphone-Amp#4307870
<em>A regular cMoy is about $60 in an Altoids tin. If someone was to build this crystal cMoy in bulk, I think $100 or so is about right.</em>
Twice that much if you sand the identification off the op amp.comment:www.metafilter.com,2012:site.115174-4307870Sun, 22 Apr 2012 23:58:49 -08002N2222By: marienbad
http://www.metafilter.com/115174/Crystal-cMoy-Freeform-Headphone-Amp#4307946
That is so so cool. Even though I don't need one, I would still like to own one.comment:www.metafilter.com,2012:site.115174-4307946Mon, 23 Apr 2012 04:24:18 -0800marienbadBy: delmoi
http://www.metafilter.com/115174/Crystal-cMoy-Freeform-Headphone-Amp#4308383
<blockquote><i>> how many people buy headphone amps?
Seriously? Thousands of people.</i></blockquote>
So in other words "practically zero" from the perspective of a mass producer. You would need a big markup on the parts in order to cover the setup costs (i.e if it costs $20k to setup an assembly line, and you sell 500 units, you need to make back $40, plus the cost of the components, labor, marketing, and so on. The "Thousands of people" who buy these things won't all be buying yours.comment:www.metafilter.com,2012:site.115174-4308383Mon, 23 Apr 2012 10:22:01 -0800delmoiBy: Goofyy
http://www.metafilter.com/115174/Crystal-cMoy-Freeform-Headphone-Amp#4309761
Clue: Headphone amps likely more popular in Europe, where iPods have their output cut by regulation. Sometimes it's difficult to hear every word of a podcast. I'd happily buy such a product if I knew what to buy and where. Never see anything for sale here.comment:www.metafilter.com,2012:site.115174-4309761Tue, 24 Apr 2012 01:13:19 -0800GoofyyBy: localroger
http://www.metafilter.com/115174/Crystal-cMoy-Freeform-Headphone-Amp#4311029
<i>Never see anything for sale here.</i>
Well, you know those regulations that make them turn down the iPod output to protect your hearing? I have some bad news...comment:www.metafilter.com,2012:site.115174-4311029Tue, 24 Apr 2012 13:46:00 -0800localroger
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