Comments on: 880,000

880,000

four panels — Fri, 21 Jun 2013 06:12:25 -0800

There are too many bicycles in Amsterdam.

By: DU

DU — Fri, 21 Jun 2013 06:17:20 -0800

Oh good, "high demand for bike racks in Amsterdam" is going to be the new "have to wait for healthcare in Canada" on the Big List Of Reasons We Can't Have Nice Things.

By: The 10th Regiment of Foot

The 10th Regiment of Foot — Fri, 21 Jun 2013 06:17:44 -0800

In Beijing, even in 2013, there are 880,000 bikes on one street. Of course, there are also cars driving the wrong way on the sidewalk while the driver talks on two cell phones.

By: selfnoise

selfnoise — Fri, 21 Jun 2013 06:18:06 -0800

I read this article this morning and it seems like the normal NYT "let's start with the conclusion and headline we want and work backwards". If you have a certain number of people with a need to get somewhere daily and your infrastructure can't accomodate that then the vehicles involved are kind of arbitrary. As is pointed out in the article itself, cars would make the city uninhabitable and the city's structure isn't a good fit for efficient mass transit so... people get by how they can. There are a variety of unsexy urban planning techniques that can alleviate this and I imagine Amsterdam will get around to these.

By: tommasz

tommasz — Fri, 21 Jun 2013 06:20:48 -0800

Trust me, don't make the tourist mistake of standing in a bicycle lane in Amsterdam. Unless you want to be roadkill, of course.

By: josher71

josher71 — Fri, 21 Jun 2013 06:22:45 -0800

Pete Jordan (also known as Dishwasher Pete) lives in Amsterdam and wrote a book about Amsterdam and bikes and had this to say: "Today the NY Times writes about how Amsterdam is swamped by a sea of bikes. As I point out in detail in my book, many of the issues facing the city today in regard to bikes (not enough parking places for them, the effort to close the Rijksmuseum passageway to cyclists, etc.) are the same issues that the city was dealing with as far back as the 1920s and 1930s. Expect the news media to be filing these same articles about Amsterdam cycling decades into the future..."

By: mhoye

mhoye — Fri, 21 Jun 2013 06:26:34 -0800

I'll just leave this here.

By: schmod

schmod — Fri, 21 Jun 2013 06:31:24 -0800

"Our city is growing too fast" sounds like a problem that most places would want to have. Fortunately, bicycles are small, which means that we can start coming up with new places to store them at a somewhat reasonable cost.

By: ardgedee

ardgedee — Fri, 21 Jun 2013 06:32:23 -0800

In what way is this a problem with worse consequences than a sea of cars? I'm unclear on how this is anything other than scaremongering..

By: The Whelk

The Whelk — Fri, 21 Jun 2013 06:34:55 -0800

The NYT always has to be in a state of restrained panic, two Pino Grises away from shaking thier head and muttering " I just dont't UNDERSTAND" in response to nothing. The actual topic doesn't really matter, the the encroaching fear that sells.

By: notyou

notyou — Fri, 21 Jun 2013 06:35:39 -0800

I'm not sure where the scaremongering is in the linked article. It reads to me like the standard newspaper account of ... whatever. In this case it's too few parking spaces for Amsterdam's bikes.

By: ian1977

ian1977 — Fri, 21 Jun 2013 06:36:15 -0800

Eindhoven has an underground bicycle parking garage. With ramp moving walkways to get in and out. It is pretty nifty.

By: ian1977

ian1977 — Fri, 21 Jun 2013 06:37:13 -0800

In what way is this a problem with worse consequences than a sea of cars? I'm unclear on how this is anything other than scaremongering.. You won't be so smug when the bicycles rise up against us!

By: The 10th Regiment of Foot

The 10th Regiment of Foot — Fri, 21 Jun 2013 06:37:47 -0800

I'll just leave this here. One thing that is left out of that image is the need for the road in the first place. Another is if the 60 people walk.

By: ian1977

ian1977 — Fri, 21 Jun 2013 06:38:24 -0800

Here is a youtube of the underground bike parking I mentioned.

By: showbiz_liz

showbiz_liz — Fri, 21 Jun 2013 06:40:18 -0800

I'm not sure where the scaremongering is in the linked article. It reads to me like the standard newspaper account of ... whatever. In this case it's too few parking spaces for Amsterdam's bikes. Yeah, but it's phrased in the article like "there are too many bikes" and not like "there are too few bike parking spaces."

By: notyou

notyou — Fri, 21 Jun 2013 06:42:45 -0800

Penultimate paragraph:

Still, no one dreams of limiting bike use. Indeed, when the renowned Rijksmuseum, the city's crown jewel, reopened in April after a 10-year, $500 million renovation, biking lobbyists celebrated a victory when guards removed barriers to a bicycle passageway through the center of the museum. The museum's director, Wim Pijbes, had sought to eliminate the bike route and put the museum's main entrance on the site, routing bikers around the building to protect pedestrians. But the Cyclists' Union, backed by a petition that showed overwhelming popular support for the bike route, carried the day.

Also: Wim Pijbes.

By: notyou

notyou — Fri, 21 Jun 2013 06:44:24 -0800

The problem of too few bike parking spaces does go hand in hand with lots of bikes, yes?

By: ZeusHumms

ZeusHumms — Fri, 21 Jun 2013 06:46:39 -0800

If there are too few parking spaces, why not have parking stickers, like they do in Chicago?

By: Tomorrowful

Tomorrowful — Fri, 21 Jun 2013 06:46:57 -0800

I'm seriously wondering how many words you'd have to change, other than "bike" to "car," to make it work perfectly as a description of Manhattan.

By: DU

DU — Fri, 21 Jun 2013 06:49:51 -0800

I don't think it's so much scare-mongering as reassuring-of-the-status-quo. "See, there are problems no matter WHAT we do, therefore do nothing". It's the same old false-equivalance thing noise-machine journalists love so much.

By: showbiz_liz

showbiz_liz — Fri, 21 Jun 2013 06:53:42 -0800

The problem of too few bike parking spaces does go hand in hand with lots of bikes, yes? Well, ok, sure, but if you phrase it "too many bikes" the solution that presents itself most readily is "get rid of some bikes," rather than "make accommodations for these too-many bikes." Basically, these days I don't trust any large NYC-based paper to give unbiased reporting on bike commuting... Citi Bike has sent the establishment into a slavering panic for some weird reason.

By: notyou

notyou — Fri, 21 Jun 2013 06:57:35 -0800

The "there are too many bikes" phrase is used once in the linked article, more or less as a transition from discussion of Amsterdamer's fondness for their bicycles to discussion of the parking lot problem, and I think it's unfortunate that that phrase was used here to introduce the article on the Blue. In conclusion, I blame four panels.

By: elizardbits

elizardbits — Fri, 21 Jun 2013 06:57:38 -0800

I was hoping it would work out to something like 6.5 bikes per resident. Sigh.

By: MuffinMan

MuffinMan — Fri, 21 Jun 2013 07:00:15 -0800

THEY'LL MAKE US RIDE BIKES, SHEEPLE! Bloomberg is evil. BEFORE YOU KNOW IT THERE WILL BE HORDES OF BIKES EVERYWHERE AND WE'LL BE COMMUNISTS! He's not one of us. He's one of them. I'm only mildly exaggerating the level of hyperbole in that article.

By: The Whelk

The Whelk — Fri, 21 Jun 2013 07:01:22 -0800

Citi Bike has sent the establishment into a slavering panic for some weird reason You don't understand! Bikes! On street corners! BIKES ON STREETCORNERS HORRIBLE AWFUL DIRTY FILTHY BIKES ON OUR PRISTINE ANTIQUE STREET CORNERS OH GOD IT'S THE MOST HORRIBLE EVER EVER TO HAPPEN IN THE HISTORY OF AMERICA

By: The Whelk

The Whelk — Fri, 21 Jun 2013 07:02:28 -0800

THEY ARE TAKING AWAY OUR FREEDOM TO NOT LOOK AT BIKES

By: ian1977

ian1977 — Fri, 21 Jun 2013 07:04:49 -0800

Melt down all the bikes and make more SUVs! An ecofriendly solution!

By: jetlagaddict

jetlagaddict — Fri, 21 Jun 2013 07:05:34 -0800

Okay but that's kind of an awesome problem to have! I can understand the frustration of realizing that every available lock-up spot is coated in the decaying carcasses of bikes last ridden three years ago. There are several universities in the UK who have bike "storage" that best resemble the droid torture chambers from Jabba's palace-- just useless heaps padlocked into place because no one bothered to claim them at the end of term.

By: seanmpuckett

seanmpuckett — Fri, 21 Jun 2013 07:05:43 -0800

Folding bicycles woud solve this problem handily. When you get to your destination, you just fold it up and take it with you. Or you stick it in a shelf with a locking bar across the front. Whatever. The "traditional" form factor of a 26" bicycle sucks. It's kind of ugly, rather ungainly, hard to move up or down stairs, is not very manoeuvrable in tight spaces. And they don't stack or pack very well at all.

By: Jakey

Jakey — Fri, 21 Jun 2013 07:07:02 -0800

The actual reality of the situation is summed up in one paragraph. The rest of the article is just anti-bike hysteria: Thomas Koorn, of Amsterdam's Transport and Traffic Department... "We have a real parking issue,...We don't think there's a crisis; we want to keep it attractive," Mr. Koorn said. He paused, then added, "You cannot imagine if all this traffic were cars." (emphasis mine)

By: ian1977

ian1977 — Fri, 21 Jun 2013 07:08:57 -0800

Unicycles would cut this problem in half OVERNIGHT.

By: foleypt

foleypt — Fri, 21 Jun 2013 07:09:41 -0800

"This clogged stream of cyclists..." I see what they did there

By: KevinSkomsvold

KevinSkomsvold — Fri, 21 Jun 2013 07:11:01 -0800

When I was there with my band in 2001 it was pretty bike-heavy but we thought it was awesome. Yes, you could get killed walking in an unofficial bike path but it still seemed downright efficient and charming given the surroundings.

By: JoeZydeco

JoeZydeco — Fri, 21 Jun 2013 07:11:10 -0800

If you ever visit Amsterdam, do not do it in a rented manual-transmission car (when you haven't driven manual in a year or so) and try to find your way out of the center of town at 8:00am while everyone is trying to bike to work. It will fry. your. brain.

By: infini

infini — Fri, 21 Jun 2013 07:13:26 -0800

What. Evah. NYT. And folding bikes are popular enough that when you get off the train (from the countryside) I'd say more bikes coming off are folding than non. The real problem is the tourists on rented bikes.

By: GenjiandProust

GenjiandProust — Fri, 21 Jun 2013 07:19:52 -0800

I can understand the frustration of realizing that every available lock-up spot is coated in the decaying carcasses of bikes last ridden three years ago. I live in a modestly large apartment building -- ~50 units with a mix of 2 BR, 1 BR, and studios. There is a bit of a problem with (well-maintained) bicycles being locked to inappropriate railings, but this is because the building has no bike parking. Even though I don't currently own a bike, I keep asking for bike parking for residents, because it's the obvious solution

By: davejay

davejay — Fri, 21 Jun 2013 07:20:05 -0800

The real problem here is that a lot of human beings seem to have tremendous difficulty accepting people's choices when they don't align with their own choices. Every choice has tradeoffs and shortcomings, and if someone makes the choice you make, you're quite likely to forgive them when the tradeoffs surface. If someone else makes a difference choice than you, however -- even when that choice doesn't effect you directly, such as choosing to drive an electric car -- a person is highly unlikely to be equally forgiving, and in fact often goes out of their way to invent strawmen with which to preemptively judge that person's different choice. Human being business as usual, really.

By: bukvich

bukvich — Fri, 21 Jun 2013 07:20:19 -0800

OK I have an anecdote about Dutch & bikes. Dutch guy told me that the Germans confiscated all the bicycles right after they invaded and converted them into scrap metal for tanks and stuff. Twenty years later the Dutch and the Germans are playing in the World Cup and 40 thousand drunk Dutch dudes are chanting in unison: "give us back our bicycles." May not even be true but later I realized I forgot to ask if they were chanting in Dutch or in German or in a neutral language?

By: ts;dr

ts;dr — Fri, 21 Jun 2013 07:20:50 -0800

Underground Bicycle Parking Systems in Japan.

By: yoink

yoink — Fri, 21 Jun 2013 07:22:45 -0800

Wow, the article you guys are reading is so much more exciting than the one I get when I click on the link. Someone scrubbed all the anti-bike hysteria from the version I read and replaced it with an entirely reasonable little human interest piece which in no way suggests that replacing bikes with cars would help anyone in any way whatsoever. I wonder if some of you would be willing to quote the virulent anti-bike propaganda that the rest of you are finding--it would be interesting to read.

By: Bathtub Bobsled

Bathtub Bobsled — Fri, 21 Jun 2013 07:22:49 -0800

Oh, this brings me back. Lived for 2 months in Amsterdam during college. Being an American, when my advisor loaned me her bike so I could get to a bank before it closed, I hopped on and the first thing I did was pop a wheelie then roll down the way with my hands off the handlebars while lighting a smoke. I thought I looked cool, but every face in the yard displayed a stern look. I know each one of them were quietly hoping something would stick in the spoke and toss me over the front on my stupid nose. It was that day I learned Dutch culture typically favors practicality, subtlety, and safety well before kickassitude. PS - If they would have followed me a ways, they would have seen me careen off the side of a newstand because I forgot that, in absence of handlebrakes, pedaling backwards brings a sudden stop in your forward progression.

By: MCMikeNamara

MCMikeNamara — Fri, 21 Jun 2013 07:24:25 -0800

ts;dr: "Underground Bicycle Parking Systems in Japan ." Japan has a neat (though kind of wacky) solution that makes the modern west seem about 100 years behind them. That's about as surprising as Americans being dicks about bikes. (not at all)

By: ts;dr

ts;dr — Fri, 21 Jun 2013 07:24:40 -0800

one of the biggest problems I see in Berlin is the bike stands near the subway stations are mostly clogged up with abandoned old bikes. If you cleaned them out regularly and maybe auctioned them out, you would not have such a big problem.

By: aerotive

aerotive — Fri, 21 Jun 2013 07:25:07 -0800

"There are too many bikes. " "Few wear helmets." What I get get out of reading this is a sense that the Dutch have a saner society than we do, at least in regards to transport. In the US--especially outisde of big cities--bicycling culture is dominated by helmeted young males in tights who ride on two weekend days a month. There, everyone rides everywhere and the idea of a helmet is absurd because there's great infrastructure & safety in numbers.

By: nushustu

nushustu — Fri, 21 Jun 2013 07:26:19 -0800

I don't understand why people want to ride bikes anyway. Whenever you need to go buy a loaf of bread, why WOULDN'T you want to take along a 4,000 lb. steel cage that holds you, an internal combustion engine, a computer and two sofas? It's like, whenever I take a bath, I ALWAYS bring a jet ski, why wouldn't I do the same on the roads?

By: ian1977

ian1977 — Fri, 21 Jun 2013 07:26:22 -0800

the first thing I did was pop a wheelie then roll down the way with my hands off the handlebars while lighting a smoke. I thought I looked cool If that isn't cool I don't know what is.

By: ian1977

ian1977 — Fri, 21 Jun 2013 07:28:07 -0800

When I am over there I always marvel how they will have a passenger riding side-saddle on the back of the back, casually dangling their feet and texting, completely comfortable and not at all FREAKING OUT AND CLINGING FOR DEAR LIFE like I would.

By: JimInLoganSquare

JimInLoganSquare — Fri, 21 Jun 2013 07:28:39 -0800

The real problem is the tourists on rented bikes. If that's the case, then there is a solution at hand: Force the bike rental companies to pay to install adequate bike parking for all the bikes they rent, in all tourist hot spots. Their customers cause the problem; they benefit monetarily from enabling their customers to cause the problem; they should pay to solve the problem. QED. And if it is the City and not private companies renting the bikes (I'm too lazy to research that), then the City should do something ... oh, wait; they are doing something, anyway! The article indicates the city of Amsterdam is currently planning to install 38,000 new bike racks in "hot spots." How many bikes fit on a rack? Six or eight? That means there will soon be over 200,000 new bike parking spaces, strategically placed where they are most needed. That should make a big dent, if not fully resolve the problem. Also, on preview ... underground parking might not be the best solution for a city that is at or near sea level.

By: infini

infini — Fri, 21 Jun 2013 07:30:27 -0800

I walk. No, really, I'd rather not say why. Its quite alright. No, really. I'll walk.

By: sandettie light vessel automatic

sandettie light vessel automatic — Fri, 21 Jun 2013 07:30:35 -0800

My university puts "Hey pls call us" tags on abandoned bikes for some probationary period, then gets rid of them. I don't think that would scale to A-dam levels, but it works well for us, anyway.

By: ThePinkSuperhero

ThePinkSuperhero — Fri, 21 Jun 2013 07:32:36 -0800

I joined CitiBike on June 10th and I still haven't gotten my membership card in the mail and all this bike talk makes me a little depressed :( All I wanna do is bicycle, bicycle, bicycle!

By: Postroad

Postroad — Fri, 21 Jun 2013 07:38:48 -0800

First the came for our 18 wheelers and we said nothing then they came for our autos and we said nothing now they come for our bikes

By: The 10th Regiment of Foot

The 10th Regiment of Foot — Fri, 21 Jun 2013 07:47:21 -0800

Would the parking situation be better if there were 880,000 cars instead?

By: ian1977

ian1977 — Fri, 21 Jun 2013 07:48:15 -0800

Would the parking situation be better if there were 880,000 cars instead? You can fit 4-6 people in a car so they are more efficient.

By: The Bellman

The Bellman — Fri, 21 Jun 2013 07:50:05 -0800

Japan has a neat (though kind of wacky) solution that makes the modern west seem about 100 years behind them. Yes, you're right, it's sad that Japan has fallen to a mere 100-year lead. The fact is that the devastating earthquake of 2007 set Japan back several hundred years to the mid-22nd century, as noted by this fine news source.

By: showbiz_liz

showbiz_liz — Fri, 21 Jun 2013 07:51:08 -0800

There are several universities in the UK who have bike "storage" that best resemble the droid torture chambers from Jabba's palace-- just useless heaps padlocked into place because no one bothered to claim them at the end of term. My university's solution to this is: at the end of every semester, there is a day by which you must have removed your bike from the university bike racks, after which they will snip the locks and auction off the bikes. As far as I'm concerned it's the perfect solution to that problem.

By: cccorlew

cccorlew — Fri, 21 Jun 2013 07:54:57 -0800

You can fit 4-6 people in a car so they are more efficient. I am amazed in California how unclogged the car pool lanes are. Because, I swear, 95%* of cars on the freeway, no matter how stupidly huge, carry but one person. While i understand it's possible, in theory, to fit 4-6 in a car, I don't see it happening very often. *not an actual factual fact, just my perception.

By: jeather

jeather — Fri, 21 Jun 2013 07:58:19 -0800

Whenever you need to go buy a loaf of bread, why WOULDN'T you want to take along a 4,000 lb. steel cage that holds you, an internal combustion engine, a computer and two sofas? This makes driving sound really awesome.

By: ocschwar

ocschwar — Fri, 21 Jun 2013 07:59:06 -0800

I can understand the frustration of realizing that every available lock-up spot is coated in the decaying carcasses of bikes last ridden three years ago. There are several universities in the UK who have bike "storage" that best resemble the droid torture chambers from Jabba's palace-- just useless heaps padlocked into place because no one bothered to claim them at the end of term. I'm amazed the Dutch, of all people, haven't figured the two things that solve the problem. 1. Bikeshare, which obviates the need for a spare bike. 2. Regular sweeps of the bike racks, where derelict bikes are tagged for removal, with a follow up sweep a week later, where bikes that are still tagged get removed.

By: thecaddy

thecaddy — Fri, 21 Jun 2013 08:00:27 -0800

I've read the Times more or less every day since I was a freshman in high school. I've been a delivery subscriber for at least 8 of the 13 years since I moved to college. I probably won't do it but I'm seriously considering cancelling my subscription over this nonsense.

By: ocschwar

ocschwar — Fri, 21 Jun 2013 08:04:21 -0800

I joined CitiBike on June 10th and I still haven't gotten my membership card in the mail and all this bike talk makes me a little depressed :( All I wanna do is bicycle, bicycle, bicycle! I can tell you from experience that Alta, the CitiBike contractor, is terrible at getting initial rollouts done right, but their daily operations are highly reliable. So hang in there.

By: 2N2222

2N2222 — Fri, 21 Jun 2013 08:07:58 -0800

By: crayz

crayz — Fri, 21 Jun 2013 08:20:37 -0800

Turns out Metafilter is far more axe grindy than the NYT article. My read is that Amsterdam, like big cities everywhere, has problems with congestion, parking availability, slow and insufficient public transportation, and a love of personal mode of transport. Overall scale is different, but the dynamics are pretty recognizable to folks in cities around the globe. Yeah I've been to Amsterdam a half dozen times and it's a better designed, healthier, happier city than about anything we have in the USA. All the cyclists are awesome, and if you get a couple minutes outside the center it's incredibly serene. The NYT sure is good at making you feel like you learned something though. Everyone's got problems; now I'mma go drive my SUV past miles of möbius strip malls on the way to Walmart.

By: eugenen

eugenen — Fri, 21 Jun 2013 08:24:11 -0800

In what way is this a problem with worse consequences than a sea of cars? I'm unclear on how this is anything other than scaremongering.. The thing that struck me when I visited Amsterdam in March was that for all its awesomeness, it's remarkably pedestrian-unfriendly: walkers have to constantly dodge bikes and try to walk along balance-beam-width "sidewalks" that are often blocked by bicycles and scooters parked across them. I do think all the bikes come at the expense of pedestrians, to some extent.

By: The Whelk

The Whelk — Fri, 21 Jun 2013 08:28:21 -0800

I never had any problems in Amsterdam but it did seem to require a little more situational awareness then usual. ( No the awful thing about Amsterdam are the firecrackers thrown into> the street on New Years)

By: 1adam12

1adam12 — Fri, 21 Jun 2013 08:29:23 -0800

There IS a ticket-and-remove system in place, it's just very very slow and the bikes in question have to be clearly derelict. Flat tires, missing wheels/seats/etc., the lot. But my impression was that Amsterdam solved its excess bike parking problem years ago by storing unneeded bikes in the canals. (YT link) Sometimes you'll even see people with lines and big old hooks, fishing for bikes off of bridges just for fun.

By: the man of twists and turns

the man of twists and turns — Fri, 21 Jun 2013 08:30:40 -0800

I wonder if some of you would be willing to quote the virulent anti-bike propaganda that the rest of you are finding--it would be interesting to read Try here.

By: me & my monkey

me & my monkey — Fri, 21 Jun 2013 08:31:12 -0800

The thing that struck me when I visited Amsterdam in March was that for all its awesomeness, it's remarkably pedestrian-unfriendly I haven't found this to be true at all, actually. I've been there about four times, and spend most of my time there as a pedestrian. Major roads, and most smaller roads, have bike lanes that are separate from pedestrian sidewalks. Some of the center city area is pedestrian-only - bike riders have to dismount and walk their bikes through.

By: yoga

yoga — Fri, 21 Jun 2013 08:31:30 -0800

There are too many ~~bicycles~~ people ~~in Amsterdam~~ on Earth. FTFY

By: daveje

daveje — Fri, 21 Jun 2013 08:36:18 -0800

There's a definitely a very assiduous don't-park-your-bike-here-or-we'll-confiscate-it system though. My bike was about 1 foot outside the marked bike park area just outside the Apple Store. When I came out 20 minutes later, the bike was gone, and it had been removed by the bicycle nazis. I had to get a lift over to the bike concentration camp, which may as well have been located on the far side of the moon, pay the fine, and cycle back into town. There's no bike problem in Amsterdam, not really. Living in a place where most journeys are by bike, car driving is incredibly painful, and all that people have to complain about are not enough places to park the bike? Puh-lease, that's about as blissful as it gets.

By: scruss

scruss — Fri, 21 Jun 2013 08:37:07 -0800

> The "traditional" … bicycle sucks. … they don't stack or pack very well at all. They stack a whole lot better than cars do.

By: ricochet biscuit

ricochet biscuit — Fri, 21 Jun 2013 08:39:35 -0800

Even before I clicked on the link, I thought "photo of bike rack at Centraal Station?" Bingo! It is pretty impressive when your North American idea of a bike rack is this.

By: Greg_Ace

Greg_Ace — Fri, 21 Jun 2013 08:48:59 -0800

mhoye: I'll just leave this here. The first thing I noticed is that the "Car" photo was taken much closer than the other two, to exaggerate the difference...also known as "lying".

By: Mister_A

Mister_A — Fri, 21 Jun 2013 08:50:21 -0800

Where can one park one's SUV in Amsterdam? All the beautiful parking has gone to these wretched, nigh-silent, emission-free bikes.

By: asperity

asperity — Fri, 21 Jun 2013 08:51:30 -0800

As part of the never-ending helmet wars, there's often scolding about how Americans bike too fast, and how we should go slowly, like the Dutch, who don't need to wear helmets since nobody's going much more than walking speed and they're all on heavy bikes. How much of that is because of the traffic? Because I weighed my bike yesterday, and my bike loaded with my usual gear comes out to 42.5 lbs. I have no problem exceeding 20 mph on flattish good terrain, and I'm not in great shape and don't bike much recreationally. It's not about the bike, or even necessarily about a culture of cycling as sport rather than transportation -- it's about the lack of a hundred other cyclists in front of me at the stop light.

By: Greg_Ace

Greg_Ace — Fri, 21 Jun 2013 08:52:38 -0800

Just to be clear - I'm not being a car apologist here. But there was really no need for the different focal length in order to get a point across; even if all three pictures had been taken at the same focal length/distance, it still would have been obvious that the cars took up more space than a bus or bicycles.

By: Mister_A

Mister_A — Fri, 21 Jun 2013 08:53:23 -0800

You can fit 4-6 people in a car so they are more efficient. This is a joke of some sort, yes?

By: sandettie light vessel automatic

sandettie light vessel automatic — Fri, 21 Jun 2013 08:56:54 -0800

How much of that is because of the traffic? Another part of it is expectations/norms. In my pretty-bike-friendly town, when I am on my road bike, I have few problems because I can be nimble in a way that I simply cannot be on my beast of a Dutch bike. I find that since driver and fellow-cyclist expectations are much more formed by road-bike type responsiveness, the more stately reaction times on the Dutch bike feel a little off, even to me. Doesn't stop me from riding it, mind. I can't carry a case of wine on the road bike.

By: JimInLoganSquare

JimInLoganSquare — Fri, 21 Jun 2013 09:00:19 -0800

You can fit 4-6 people in a car so they are more efficient. This is a joke of some sort, yes? Certainly.

By: lesbiassparrow

lesbiassparrow — Fri, 21 Jun 2013 09:01:36 -0800

My sister used to live in Amsterdam. One day when she was cycling she was hit by a car - not too badly, but enough to send her off the bike. The single thing she remembers most vividly about the incident was the crowd gathering around and shouting at the driver to the point where she thought they might cause him actual bodily harm. It's a far cry from Dublin, where she lives now, where people tend to feel you've got what you deserve if you get hit...

By: ian1977

ian1977 — Fri, 21 Jun 2013 09:18:03 -0800

This is a joke of some sort, yes? The highest sort.

By: Eekacat

Eekacat — Fri, 21 Jun 2013 09:24:56 -0800

Yeah, no shit. Try parking in central Amsterdam sometime. I'm a dutch boy, and a bicyclist, though I grew up and live in the USA. Travelling to Amsterdam this past fall was like reaching Nirvana for me. Bikes everywhere, people like me, lots of people not like me and all living together happily, and awesome food. It was nice to see how people handled near accidents. If it was NYC there would be constant honking, swearing, and yelling. In Amsterdam it was simply an excuse me between bikes. Amsterdam is one of my favorite places on this planet.

By: srboisvert

srboisvert — Fri, 21 Jun 2013 09:28:28 -0800

I am amazed in California how unclogged the car pool lanes are. Because, I swear, 95%* of cars on the freeway, no matter how stupidly huge, carry but one person. While i understand it's possible, in theory, to fit 4-6 in a car, I don't see it happening very often. Having worked in insurance I can assure you that you are correct. One of the reasons insurance companies try and finagle ways to discriminate against recent immigrants is that they usually haven't yet adopted the American and Canadian norm of one car for one person and subsequently their claims are almost always larger because more people are injured in each accident (plus they are more likely to hire lawyers whereas the non-immigrants believe they know the system even when they don't).

By: The 10th Regiment of Foot

The 10th Regiment of Foot — Fri, 21 Jun 2013 10:22:26 -0800

You can fit 4-6 people in a car so they are more efficient. Yes, you CAN fit 4-6 people in one, but as most of that space is wasted in carrying an average of 1.59 passengers per car, then it becomes vastly less efficient.

By: schmod

schmod — Fri, 21 Jun 2013 10:23:15 -0800

Greg_Ace: "The first thing I noticed is that the "Car" photo was taken much closer than the other two, to exaggerate the difference...also known as "lying"." An updated version of that photo with commentary from Jarrett Walker. I also remember that London did a similar photo, but with a photo of a double-decker bus added in. Those things can hold a *ton* of people. (London is one of those weird, rare places that actually takes bus planning seriously, and they've got some impressive results to show for it.)

By: The 10th Regiment of Foot

The 10th Regiment of Foot — Fri, 21 Jun 2013 10:43:03 -0800

average of 1.59 passengers per car Sorry, I just realized I was reading an older data set that said 1.59 and linking to the newer 2012 report that says things are actually worse at 1.55 per car!

By: Ogre Lawless

Ogre Lawless — Fri, 21 Jun 2013 11:26:10 -0800

I think the practical solution is the same globally: rideshare.

By: zvs

zvs — Fri, 21 Jun 2013 11:44:23 -0800

Huh, I would have guessed lower than 1.55.

By: MartinWisse

MartinWisse — Fri, 21 Jun 2013 11:45:53 -0800

The problem with bikes around Centraal Station is simple. The station has been undergoing renovation for over a decade now for various reasons (extending the station's train capacity, general maintaince, new underground north - south metro line, removal of the bus station from the front to the back of the station, undsoweiter) which has left much less room for bikes just at a time when bike use has been increasing again. There simply is a lack of parking space anywhere near the station. The city and the railways have been trying to improve this, but it's been hard to do, due to lack of space; it's far beyond just slapping some new bike racks near the station. It doesn't help that many people just abandon their bikes there (bloody students); the council has been increasingly strict with enforcing long term parking regulations. Actual bike traffic jams though are rare and only occur at natural bottlenecks like the ferries and then only for a minute or two as a ferry comes in.

By: photoslob

photoslob — Fri, 21 Jun 2013 11:54:01 -0800

I think it's funny that when I read the headline this morning all I could think was PLEASE TELL ME ABOUT THIS AMAZING PARADISE I WANT TO GO TO THERE

By: MartinWisse

MartinWisse — Fri, 21 Jun 2013 11:54:33 -0800

May not even be true but later I realized I forgot to ask if they were chanting in Dutch or in German or in a neutral language? Wir wohlen unsere fahrraden zuruck (in a hideous Dutch accent; German likely not correct[1]). Yeah, that the Germans stole our bikes is a long standing national insult often dragged up when some tourist is being particularly annoying, and in football situations. It's almost as big a cliche in Holland as the Germans stealing deck chairs in hotels is in the UK. [1] Ik ken uberhaupt maar 1 woord Duits. -- H. Finkers.

By: MartinWisse

MartinWisse — Fri, 21 Jun 2013 11:56:28 -0800

Underground Bicycle Parking Systems in Japan. Underground bike parking system in Amsterdam Noord (shown with appropriate music).

By: MartinWisse

MartinWisse — Fri, 21 Jun 2013 12:02:13 -0800

No the ~~awful~~ awesome thing about Amsterdam are the firecrackers thrown into> the street on New Years Fixed that for you. Tip for tourists who like fireworks and are in town around New Year's Eve: go to Nieuwmarkt, preferably a few hours before midnight. That's where you have the local wide boys, Chinese merchants and students all competing to show off the largest, loudest, biggest fireworks they can buy.

By: aught

aught — Fri, 21 Jun 2013 12:43:48 -0800

Whenever you need to go buy a loaf of bread, why WOULDN'T you want to take along a 4,000 lb. steel cage that holds you, an internal combustion engine, a computer and two sofas? You forgot the heating / air-conditioning unit. Which is both an addition to your question and part of the answer.

By: mhoye

mhoye — Fri, 21 Jun 2013 12:47:14 -0800

The first thing I noticed is that the "Car" photo was taken much closer than the other two, to exaggerate the difference...also known as "lying". Clearly; if it wasn't for that trick of perspective, everyone would be able to see that sixty people riding one bus, sixty cyclists and sixty cars actually about the same size. So, let's correct that. Here it is, roughly to scale, and recreated in a variety of ways and contexts. So, I can totally see how a suspicious mind might think that cars, bikes and people are all the same size. Unfortunately, that's not the case at all and also what the hell.

By: elpapacito

elpapacito — Fri, 21 Jun 2013 12:50:16 -0800

don't be mad at me for riding my bike in amsterdam, looking healthy sexy and skinny while you haul your suv sized ass in your nyt 'hood

By: elizardbits

elizardbits — Fri, 21 Jun 2013 12:51:41 -0800

werq it gurl

By: the man of twists and turns

the man of twists and turns — Fri, 21 Jun 2013 12:59:46 -0800

schmod, that link is good, but missed an important point:

the photo understates the space requirements of bikes compared to the other two.

The photo actually understates the longitudinal distance requirements of all three vehicle types, but the cars require wildly more space, both individually and per-passenger, than do the other forms. This is mainly due to the increased speed and therefore increased stopping distances.

By: telstar

telstar — Fri, 21 Jun 2013 13:20:01 -0800

Crap like this is why I tend to avoid the New York Times.

By: kyrademon

kyrademon — Fri, 21 Jun 2013 13:38:16 -0800

Coming next in the New York Times: Hawaii suffering from beaches, nice weather. The Parisian plague -- a city overrun with beauty. Yellowstone Park clogged by nature.

By: dhartung

dhartung — Fri, 21 Jun 2013 16:10:45 -0800

I'm not sure where the scaremongering is in the linked article. It reads to me like the standard newspaper account of ... whatever. Someone scrubbed all the anti-bike hysteria from the version I read and replaced it with an entirely reasonable little human interest piece The thing is, as some of the earliest comments noted, the NYT does this sort of passive-aggressive thing all the time. It's especially evident in the Style section and occasionally the Magazine, where a seemingly positive story about hipsters or society weddings reveals deep-seated class and cultural resentments, but it can also be found in "news" features like this one (not quite so evident in the actual reported news, though, since that is more objectively about things than people -- unless you count Judith Miller &c.). It's a thing they have and the timing here, directly after the introduction of Citibike, is clearly going to land right in the very-nasty debate. It's a high-journalism form of trolling, in other words. I think it's more disingenuous than genuine -- it isn't the NYT taking the position OMG BIKES so much as giving the OMG BIKES crowd kindling to burn. Or the way Republicans introduce legislation less with the hope of seeing it enacted than of seeing Democrats blow steam out of their ears. Essentially the NYT is positioning itself a little above the fray, but not above stirring the pot, to intentionally mix metaphors. Frankly, not even the Washington Post is nearly at good at playing this game (nor, of course, does it have the same readership). They tend to stir the pot by hiring obviously inexperienced right-wing bloggers. The Wall Street Journal likes to publish contrarian liberals, or just blatantly editorialize as with Rabinowitz in the first place. But the NYT likes to pretend it likes something while subtly jeering at inconsequential privilege, or engaging in deliberately sober concern trolling. SQUIRREL POPULATION REBOUNDS; NUT-DEPENDENT HOMELESS FACING NUTRITION DEFICIT

By: yoink

yoink — Fri, 21 Jun 2013 16:59:51 -0800

The thing is, as some of the earliest comments noted, the NYT does this sort of passive-aggressive thing all the time. This strikes me as much more "Metafilter doing its weird freak-out about hidden agendas in NYT articles" thing. Nothing in this article is saying "OMG, those crazy Dutch people preferring bikes to cars!" The article makes it perfectly clear that if everyone drove cars instead of riding bikes the situation would be much worse than it is--the "OMG bikes!" crowd have absolutely nothing to gain from citing or touting this article. All the article is doing is one of those conventional "here's a problem from a very different cultural context you wouldn't have thought about" stories. The eeeeeevil anti-bike subtext is something entirely imported by the rather over-active imaginations of certain readers.

By: panaceanot

panaceanot — Fri, 21 Jun 2013 19:27:51 -0800

Metafilter: entirely imported by the rather over-active imaginations of certain readers

By: davejay

davejay — Fri, 21 Jun 2013 21:28:31 -0800

Been thinking about this thread, and thinking about the two other things we get with helmet laws: a tool for teens to defend themselves against peer pressure, and for parents to express potential consequences that are more scary to a teen than "you'll bash your head open." When I was old enough to drive, but only barely, I remember telling my friends they had to wear seatbelts in the car because it was the law, and there was no way in hell I was going to get a ticket for their dumbassery. They moaned and groaned, but they always put 'em on. Granted, it doesn't solve the problem in all cases, but it can help.

By: nowhere man

nowhere man — Sat, 22 Jun 2013 06:35:18 -0800

I do think NYC is going to have to figure out good ways to accommodate the boom in cyclists. There will surely be some growing pains but with good planning it can be done well. The city will be better off for it. The problem in NYC is too many cars.

By: nowhere man

nowhere man — Sat, 22 Jun 2013 06:43:54 -0800

Been thinking about this thread, and thinking about the two other things we get with helmet laws: a tool for teens to defend themselves against peer pressure... Dude, just take off your helmet and take a little puff. Trust me, you'll like it.

By: schmod

schmod — Sat, 22 Jun 2013 07:06:55 -0800

davejay: "Been thinking about this thread, and thinking about the two other things we get with helmet laws: a tool for teens to defend themselves against peer pressure" There's precious little evidence that helmet laws lead to any measurable improvement in safety -- but they do correlate strongly to less cycling, which coincidentally has been shown to make things considerably more dangerous for the remaining cyclists. Helmet use in the Netherlands is in the low single-digit percentages, and yet it's statistically one of the safest places in the world to ride a bicycle. There's a lot of evidence for the "strength in numbers" argument, and one bad study made a whole lot of Americans believe helmets are some kind of panacea for bicycle safety. Meanwhile, helmet laws give the police another arbitrary reason to accost teenagers (especially poor minorities, who are more likely to be using a bike as their primary means of transportation). There's almost zero evidence that helmet laws are a good idea.

By: blub

blub — Sat, 22 Jun 2013 09:33:37 -0800

I recently read something about this in a Dutch magazine too, but the tone was completely different, or at least that's how I remember it (sadly I don't remember where I read it). The article was about the challenge of parking all those bicycles and also how important it was to do that and not discourage cycling, because more cars would be a way bigger problem. It also talked about the enormous space taken up by parked cars in the city. As a Dutch person, the article reads strange. This, for example: Mothers and fathers balance toddlers in spacious wooden boxes affixed to their bikes, ferrying them to school or day care. Carpenters carry tools and supplies in similar contraptions reads to me as though mothers find a wooden box somewhere and then nail it on their bicycle, and just put their kid in there, hoping it doesn't fall out (while they are "balancing" them) or otherwise gets hurt from the "contraption". That's not the case. They mean a bakfiets (link to a store that shows a few common models) and those are well designed products that are actually meant for transporting children. Also, I don't know if this is obvious for people who just read the article, but this is really mostly not a problem in most of the country. I live in a city and I can ride my bicycle anywhere and park right in front of the central station here, and in front of every store I want to go to. It's not like the complete country is overrun by bicycles or anything like that. Complaining about "too many bicycles" really isn't a common sentiment here, and this is a country where many people do love to complain about everything.

By: schmod

schmod — Tue, 02 Jul 2013 12:20:24 -0800

the man of twists and turns: "This is mainly due to the increased speed and therefore increased stopping distances." When traveling at the comparable speeds, most cyclists actually have longer stopping distances than cars; sometimes by a rather wide margin. (Cars usually do travel quite a bit faster, but if a car traveling 20mph slams on its brakes, a cyclist traveling 20mph directly behind it will probably end up rear-ending the car)