Comments on: Simon and the rat both feel it's best to just ignore each other

Simon and the rat both feel it's best to just ignore each other

JHarris — Tue, 06 Aug 2013 13:21:09 -0800

"The very first single-player dungeoncrawl game was not a video game. It was a series of charts printed in the first edition of Dungeons & Dragons, back in 1979. By rolling dice according to the instructions, you could generate a dungeon which was illogical, arbitrary, super-lethal, and which often didn't even produce useable results.
THIS GAME USES THOSE CHARTS."

Dungeon Robber is a flash text game that simulates playing AD&D by the AD&D Appendix A dungeon generation rules. You'll probably die a lot, but the game saves every time you head to town. Blog of the creator.
⇒ Dungeon Robber comics! ⇐

Note, the illustration isn't a map of the dungeon, but more of a metaphorical map of the dungeon generation process. The yellow drop-down item provides context sensitive help and documentation. Part of the fun of the game is that, as characters die and/or retire, they customize the town; retired characters open up shops and such to add more options to town, and dead characters go to the graveyard. You make available new character classes when you retire a character at 3,000, 10,000, 20,000 and 30,000 XP. A page on Wizard of the Coast's website with a link to a PDF of a substantial excerpt from Appendix A of the 1E DMG. A 1E dungeon generator using a custom algorithm. A variety of other random dungeon generators. Previously

By: GuyZero

GuyZero — Tue, 06 Aug 2013 13:25:25 -0800

Too bad it doesn't hold the generated state, but still, WOW, I actually gasped out loud when I read the description. What a throwback. Also, it was a bit too realistic - after several minutes, I had found nothing.

By: MartinWisse

MartinWisse — Tue, 06 Aug 2013 13:25:53 -0800

Neat, but Colossal Cave Adventure was 1976, Hunt the Wumpus 1972. However, both of these took place in caverns, not dungeons, so this could still be right. Can I get my no-prize?

By: JHarris

JHarris — Tue, 06 Aug 2013 13:28:33 -0800

Those are not dungeon crawls, which is a specific kind of game where you fight a horde of monsters in a RPG style.

By: Samizdata

Samizdata — Tue, 06 Aug 2013 13:29:01 -0800

MartinWisse: "Neat, but Colossal Cave Adventure was 1976, Hunt the Wumpus 1972. However, both of these took place in caverns, not dungeons, so this could still be right. Can I get my no-prize?" I remember playing Hunt The Wumpus on a pay-per-hour TTY terminal. It cost me a goodly bit to learn I suck at it.

By: GuyZero

GuyZero — Tue, 06 Aug 2013 13:32:24 -0800

Rogue dates back to nearly the exact same time period and is most assuredly a dungeon crawl, but Gygax, et al probably have it beat very slightly.

By: JHarris

JHarris — Tue, 06 Aug 2013 13:33:34 -0800

Since a post about horse_ebooks is on the front page as well, might I nominate today to be Metafilter Random Generation day? I could put it on the calendar....

By: boo_radley

boo_radley — Tue, 06 Aug 2013 13:35:38 -0800

I just found 110 platinum pieces as a peasant. fuck all y'all, ima make it rain like I'm a 20th level druid.

By: JHarris

JHarris — Tue, 06 Aug 2013 13:36:10 -0800

I identified Rogue as having been inspired by Appendix A in @Play once, but admittedly, it might not have actually seen those rules, although its creators did know of D&D in its earlier editions, it had already been around five or six years by that time. It's possible that, like many other things in the 1E DMG, the random dungeon rules might have been printed earlier than that in some supplement or newsletter or some such, somewhere, maybe in a prototype, reduced or incomplete form.

By: GuyZero

GuyZero — Tue, 06 Aug 2013 13:37:44 -0800

What's interesting is that these solo-player mechanics fell out of style for D&D while other games, mostly Traveller kept them to the point of going out of their way to make as many game mechanics single-player-friendly as possible. I mean, very few people probably ever ran a space battle with High Guard but a lot more people build ships & fleets with it. It's a pity that video games came along so quickly and killed the nascent solo pen&paper RPG genre.

By: The World Famous

The World Famous — Tue, 06 Aug 2013 13:39:04 -0800

I call dibs on Blog Of The Creator as either a band name or the name of my new religion/cult.

By: Chrysostom

Chrysostom — Tue, 06 Aug 2013 13:39:14 -0800

This is the most JHarris post ever. I meant that in an entirely positive way.

By: GuyZero

GuyZero — Tue, 06 Aug 2013 13:40:31 -0800

Also I may still own a set of Dungeon Geomorphs.

By: Iridic

Iridic — Tue, 06 Aug 2013 13:43:16 -0800

Uh - how do I eat food?

By: JHarris

JHarris — Tue, 06 Aug 2013 13:44:52 -0800

You have to find a dead end, I believe, to eat food. Those are chosen as "safe spots" in the dungeon. Alternatively you could find a place where you can backtrack to the stairs and just go back to down, I suppose.

By: Our Ship Of The Imagination!

Our Ship Of The Imagination! — Tue, 06 Aug 2013 13:47:24 -0800

JHarris: THIS IS AWESOME!

By: chunking express

chunking express — Tue, 06 Aug 2013 13:48:46 -0800

I backed the original project on Kickstarter. The full map is really cool / gigantic. Though, I haven't figured out what to do with it. This is a cool little game.

By: boo_radley

boo_radley — Tue, 06 Aug 2013 13:55:06 -0800

how do I use stuff? I have this potion I want to drink.

By: boo_radley

boo_radley — Tue, 06 Aug 2013 13:56:56 -0800

Oh, you probably have to be in a safe room. Fine.

By: Gygesringtone

Gygesringtone — Tue, 06 Aug 2013 13:58:25 -0800

I got the option to use my scroll during monster encounters, not sure about potions. This is awesome.

By: JHarris

JHarris — Tue, 06 Aug 2013 14:00:40 -0800

Sometimes when you're at a choice of where to go, it'll ask you, among the other options, if you want to (u)se an item. It's usually the places where it asks if you want to backtrack.

By: JHarris

JHarris — Tue, 06 Aug 2013 14:05:45 -0800

Also note, like the old days, a lot of your experience comes from finding treasure, although in this game you have to give up the gold pieces to the bank for your retirement, Pirates! style, for it to count as experience points.

By: YAMWAK

YAMWAK — Tue, 06 Aug 2013 14:06:48 -0800

Oh dear - that ate a lot of time. Fishing is a dangerous occupation - tried it twice, both times eaten by a sea monster. From fishing in a pond. Yeah, needs to play faster.

By: advil

advil — Tue, 06 Aug 2013 14:08:07 -0800

This is sort of cool but, am I right that your exploration choices (except for backtracking) effectively don't much matter? Places discovered before don't seem persistent, and the same random procedures seem to apply pretty much whatever you choose. It makes the whole exploration process feel empty and pointless after a while.

By: GuyZero

GuyZero — Tue, 06 Aug 2013 14:11:05 -0800

It makes the whole exploration process feel empty and pointless after a while. Welcome to the world of playing D&D by yourself.

By: JHarris

JHarris — Tue, 06 Aug 2013 14:12:36 -0800

Yeah, but that's the 1E dungeon generation tables for you. Once you realize it's meaningless, usually, whatever you choose, you can stop obsessing about it and just move on towards the next encounter. It's not just a game, but a window back to that time before computers when it was conceivable people might actually do this. Although I wonder... what could be done to make the act of exploring such a random sequence of locations more meaningful? Maybe have a hidden preference for monsters if you turn left? Make traps more likely if you go straight ahead? Maybe randomize those biases, and change them on each dungeon level?

By: JHarris

JHarris — Tue, 06 Aug 2013 14:14:12 -0800

There appear to be some weird items to find. I just stumbled upon a "van helsing kit," which makes vampires, werewolves and medusas much easier to handle. Maybe I should dive....

By: boo_radley

boo_radley — Tue, 06 Aug 2013 14:15:36 -0800

JHarris: "There appear to be some weird items to find. " I'm burdened by furniture! What kind? Who knows! It's heavy, though.

By: GuyZero

GuyZero — Tue, 06 Aug 2013 14:19:52 -0800

To make a more meaningful comment, this is like playing playing-card Solitaire. Arguably there's no point to that either - you could even make the argument that Solitaire requires a small amount of skill to win as there are occasionally choices to make that affect the outcome of the game. This is literally a time-killer. But as JHarris says, it comes from a time when pen&paper RPGs were still new and the game designers didn't have any idea what people actually wanted to do with them. Steve Jackson would come out with the Fighting Fantasy books only a couple of years later. They had pretty much invented the computer RPG game but didn't have computers yet. Also, in the 80's kids apparently loved rolling dice. I have to say, it happened to me. You rolled dice like your life depended on it.

By: JHarris

JHarris — Tue, 06 Aug 2013 14:30:45 -0800

It is a time-killer, yes. But there are lots of games like that, and they don't have a great deal more to recommend them than this. At least this game realizes how silly it is, has a bit of fun with it, and also provides some historical perspective along the way. And you can imagine the career of your adventurer, shaped by the whims of fate. Unlike, say, a flash game that wants to be a JRPG kind of thing, which provides a more "structured" and "narrative" experience, with better graphics and sound, but is ultimately less interesting than this, because it doesn't even have random weirdness to recommend it. BTW: you can hover your mouse over items in your inventory to get a description of them. You can also drop items at any time. (BTW, you can open your character sheet at any point and use or equip items from there, if anyone hasn't realized it yet.)

By: GuyZero

GuyZero — Tue, 06 Aug 2013 14:34:16 -0800

less interesting than this, because it doesn't even have random weirdness to recommend it. Well, I dunno, I find this interesting on a bunch of levels, but as far as game mechanics go, it's the same basic gameplay as a slot machine. So by "interesting" I think you mean "supplies intermittent variable reward."

By: griphus

griphus — Tue, 06 Aug 2013 14:36:51 -0800

I just stumbled upon a "van helsing kit," which makes vampires, werewolves and medusas much easier to handle. The kit is just a copy of 2004's Van Helsing, starring Hugh Jackman. It'll make anything yearn for sweet release.

By: JHarris

JHarris — Tue, 06 Aug 2013 14:37:10 -0800

"Interesting" is many things. It's not just choices that can make a game interesting, but also simulation, and imagination. The mapping, in your mind, of the completely arbitrary events of the game onto the fate of a pretend person. That's a lot of role-playing gaming right there. I just found a +1 dagger. Not a great weapon compared to a bludgeon, but it sells for 500 GP, which is half an experience level.

By: Ad hominem

Ad hominem — Tue, 06 Aug 2013 14:39:39 -0800

This really kind of reminds me of a BBS door game.

By: JHarris

JHarris — Tue, 06 Aug 2013 14:39:46 -0800

That's why I think the retirement options add more to the game; they conclude your character's story. Also, once you retire a character at 2,000 XP you start being able to being in hirelings, which I haven't tried yet but might open up the strategic options a little.

By: advil

advil — Tue, 06 Aug 2013 14:53:40 -0800

I guess the game pretty much acknowledges this: from the intro thing that I didn't read the first time: "By rolling dice according to the instructions, you could generate a dungeon which was illogical, arbitrary, super-lethal, and which often didn't even produce usable results." Speaking of which, the result of my first game: I found a "priceless ruby" worth 2500 on dungeon level 1, and retired with enough exp to unlock the thief.

By: boo_radley

boo_radley — Tue, 06 Aug 2013 14:57:47 -0800

JHarris: " at 2,000 XP you start being able to being in hirelings," You can also bribe jerks in the dungeon for hirelings. It works pretty well.

By: kaibutsu

kaibutsu — Tue, 06 Aug 2013 15:06:11 -0800

So in early undergrad I moved into this big house full of nerds. One day, while kinda bored, I whipped out Appendix A, a dry-erase mat, and a bunch of minis, and started a solo-explore on the dining room table. I played about an hour on my own before someone came by and said,' Huh, what are you doing?' Then there were two of us. By evening we had a party of five. The rules were simple: The only map that exists is the map that is currently drawn. All new rooms and passages must be generated by Appendix A. Town exists, and you start the day there, but unless you happen to find a random staircase back to the surface, you're stuck in the dungeon. Magically, though, if the game ends for the night, it then restarts the next time in the village. Finally, character death is final and remorseless. Having a character survive to third level was a pretty big feat. Finding a stair back to the surface was fucking unheard of. You find lots of stairs going down, but every so few going up.... We played this like basically every day before dinner for two months, I think. It was fantastic. Completely mindless, DM-less monster bashing with minis. Good times.

By: Samizdata

Samizdata — Tue, 06 Aug 2013 15:24:28 -0800

kaibutsu: "So in early undergrad I moved into this big house full of nerds. One day, while kinda bored, I whipped out Appendix A, a dry-erase mat, and a bunch of minis, and started a solo-explore on the dining room table. I played about an hour on my own before someone came by and said,' Huh, what are you doing?' Then there were two of us. By evening we had a party of five. The rules were simple: The only map that exists is the map that is currently drawn. All new rooms and passages must be generated by Appendix A. Town exists, and you start the day there, but unless you happen to find a random staircase back to the surface, you're stuck in the dungeon. Magically, though, if the game ends for the night, it then restarts the next time in the village. Finally, character death is final and remorseless. Having a character survive to third level was a pretty big feat. Finding a stair back to the surface was fucking unheard of. You find lots of stairs going down, but every so few going up.... We played this like basically every day before dinner for two months, I think. It was fantastic. Completely mindless, DM-less monster bashing with minis. Good times." Unless you are playing this and keep finding stairs that collapse under you like something from a demented fun house.

By: JHarris

JHarris — Tue, 06 Aug 2013 15:24:35 -0800

Responding to advil's discovery, I think those random swings add a lot to the experience. They're random, but generally not too random. It's enough to feel like woah, but it doesn't destroy the structure of the thing, you don't become King by finding a diamond on level 1. (Well, I suppose it's possible, but vanishingly unlikely.)

By: tiaz

tiaz — Tue, 06 Aug 2013 15:25:56 -0800

I retired a guy at the "Mayor" level but the position is still vacant. Do I really have to fill every intervening position? Alternately, is there a way to retire that doesn't involve dying in the dungeon first?

By: JHarris

JHarris — Tue, 06 Aug 2013 15:26:16 -0800

Samizdata, "demented fun house" is an excellent description of a classic D&D megadungeon.

By: JHarris

JHarris — Tue, 06 Aug 2013 15:28:16 -0800

If you die, you haven't retired. To get the option to retire, go to your house in town. If you weren't playing Advanced mode, your save file should still be there. Note, when you retire, your save is erased.

By: GuyZero

GuyZero — Tue, 06 Aug 2013 15:59:44 -0800

Huh. So you sort of have to retire to advance in the game. Let's see how henchmen help.

By: Jalliah

Jalliah — Tue, 06 Aug 2013 16:01:18 -0800

I love this!

By: Jalliah

Jalliah — Tue, 06 Aug 2013 16:04:47 -0800

Ha. Such a nerd. I just whooped out loud when I found a ring of invisibility. I'm suffering from a big dose of nostalgia here. It's making me want to play D&D again. Unfortunately finding a game around here is pretty much impossible.

By: TonyRobots

TonyRobots — Tue, 06 Aug 2013 16:05:32 -0800

Yeah, very cool.

By: winna

winna — Tue, 06 Aug 2013 16:31:17 -0800

Responding to advil's discovery, I think those random swings add a lot to the experience. They're random, but generally not too random. It's enough to feel like woah, but it doesn't destroy the structure of the thing, you don't become King by finding a diamond on level 1. (Well, I suppose it's possible, but vanishingly unlikely.) I found a priceless ruby on level 1! It could happen to you!

By: kagredon

kagredon — Tue, 06 Aug 2013 16:32:51 -0800

Van Helsing kits don't work on ghasts man that's some bullshit (oh my god I am going to lose so many hours to this game this week)

By: restless_nomad

restless_nomad — Tue, 06 Aug 2013 16:34:05 -0800

I can't even describe how much I'm enjoying this. It's the perfect blank-out game for me right now.

By: antonymous

antonymous — Tue, 06 Aug 2013 16:52:09 -0800

This is great - at first I didn't understand the concept of retirement, but decided to try it, and it appears to make things easier in the long run. (Also, noticed a bug where if you buy chain mail from the smithy it doesn't appear you can equip it but you just have to stow it, then try again - of course I discovered that *after* I stumbled across some plate mail)

By: TonyRobots

TonyRobots — Tue, 06 Aug 2013 17:04:05 -0800

How persistent is the game status? (I'm afraid to close the tab!)

By: RolandOfEld

RolandOfEld — Tue, 06 Aug 2013 17:06:18 -0800

Oh, jesus. I didn't know that if you died before retiring (even if you pick the retire option after death, wtf?) you lost the progress you'd made towards the other classes. Be warned.

By: restless_nomad

restless_nomad — Tue, 06 Aug 2013 17:33:14 -0800

Retiring after death creates a marker in the graveyard with some notes on your progress. You can't run a business when you're dead.

By: SPrintF

SPrintF — Tue, 06 Aug 2013 18:50:53 -0800

I think you're all overlooking the possibilities of town encounters. To wit, Harlot: 01-10 Slovenly trull 11-25 Brazen strumpet 26-35 Cheap trollop 36-50 Typical streetwalker 51-65 Saucy tart 66-75 Wanton wench 76-85 Expensive doxy 86-90 Haughty courtesan 91-92 Aged madam 93-94 Wealthy procuress 95-98 Sly pimp 99-00 Rich panderer In my day, I built whole encounters around a "saucy tart" pickpocket that eventually became an NPC thief in my campaign. "Wanton wench" still troubles me. There was a point when I admitted that my female Cleric was not a member of a celibate order and celebrated the Goddess of Love and Fertility. The dudes became very quiet then, and plotted their own campaigns.

By: JHarris

JHarris — Tue, 06 Aug 2013 18:57:44 -0800

How persistent is the game status? If you're playing Basic, the game saves every time you go to town or enter the dungeon. On Advanced I think it does the same, but if you die it erases your save. I assume -- I haven't tried that yet, but I think it might end up being more entertaining really. I wonder if there's any advantages to retiring Advanced characters.

By: graymouser

graymouser — Tue, 06 Aug 2013 19:02:38 -0800

Unfortunately finding a game around here is pretty much impossible. Weird but fun fact: the D&D players all went to Google Plus. Most of the D&D I play at the moment is in hangout games. There is a large, thriving community of RPG fans at G+. Most of the other people I know are only vaguely aware it exists. Dungeon Robber is a neat toy but it's not a Braunstein so it lacks the magic of a real RPG, which is that anything can happen.

By: JHarris

JHarris — Tue, 06 Aug 2013 19:07:04 -0800

I ran a Call of Cthulhu adventure for some MeFites some time ago. I keep meaning to do something like that again. Actually, Edogy might still be doing something like that. Hey, Eggy, you listening?

By: zug

zug — Tue, 06 Aug 2013 19:48:29 -0800

Yesssss a +1 Fishing pole sea treasure you are mine

By: Charlemagne In Sweatpants

Charlemagne In Sweatpants — Tue, 06 Aug 2013 20:33:15 -0800

I spent so much time on an old flash version of Chainsaw Warrior, but it seemed to have disappeared. Luckily, its coming to iOS.

By: Charlemagne In Sweatpants

Charlemagne In Sweatpants — Tue, 06 Aug 2013 20:34:17 -0800

Ah this game is too addictive. Killed by a giant rat! that's proper old school hard.

By: Gygesringtone

Gygesringtone — Tue, 06 Aug 2013 20:38:18 -0800

Wait, is anyone else is playing it on the advanced setting?

By: JHarris

JHarris — Tue, 06 Aug 2013 20:53:32 -0800

I haven't yet, but may start soon. I wanted to get a good handle on how it plays in Basic mode first.

By: restless_nomad

restless_nomad — Tue, 06 Aug 2013 20:54:05 -0800

Not yet, I want to get some of the unlocks done. The advanced classes make the game so much more interesting - you can actually survive longer and deeper runs.

By: Charlemagne In Sweatpants

Charlemagne In Sweatpants — Tue, 06 Aug 2013 21:07:35 -0800

I'm playing it on Advanced, but I die just as quickly.

By: Gygesringtone

Gygesringtone — Tue, 06 Aug 2013 21:11:04 -0800

Near as I can tell it's just "basic" with only one stat bonus and no inventory at the beginning. I've had two good runs and got to merchant, so that's something.

By: Gygesringtone

Gygesringtone — Tue, 06 Aug 2013 21:18:15 -0800

You know, now that I think about it, this is basically Candy Land for people who like the illusion of Free Will. So I'm guessing that streak of mine was the Random Number Generator's way of paying me back for all those games of Candy Land my son keeps winning. I'm not sure how you can be good at Candy Land, but he is. Also, I love the fact that about half the randomly assigned names are female.

By: dogheart

dogheart — Tue, 06 Aug 2013 21:33:50 -0800

oh god send help i can't stop playing

By: restless_nomad

restless_nomad — Tue, 06 Aug 2013 21:44:13 -0800

So some notes in case other people are not finding this as obvious as I am. - Each level has ten rooms. Choosing "Explore" from the center area advances the counter by one. - Dead ends that you have to backtrack from lose all your progress. - The tenth room will have the stairs down. I didn't notice this for ages because I was mostly ending up down randomly-found stairs and chutes and stuff. - Backtracking may get you lost. I'm not sure if when you recover from "wandering" if the room you're in is random or what. Also, this should be obvious, but when you go back to town, make sure you check how close you are to leveling before you spend money on healing. Leveling up heals you completely. Anything else people are finding? I haven't played a ton with parleying with intelligent monsters...

By: RobotVoodooPower

RobotVoodooPower — Tue, 06 Aug 2013 21:46:05 -0800

I killed a giant rat. It seems it'll be a long long way to Otto's Irresistible Dance.

By: JHarris

JHarris — Tue, 06 Aug 2013 22:08:47 -0800

Ah, it seems to have lost a save of mine. Bad show, Dungeon Robber.

By: JHarris

JHarris — Tue, 06 Aug 2013 23:25:45 -0800

Bracers AC 14 are nice to have, but sell for 1,500 GP! I just jumped from Lv 0 to Lv 2 on Advanced by selling one, meaning I've got hirelings available there but not sacks.

By: robcorr

robcorr — Wed, 07 Aug 2013 00:24:50 -0800

I can't bring myself to retire! Deeper! Deeper! Unfortunately finding a game around here is pretty much impossible. Weird but fun fact: the D&D players all went to Google Plus. I played my first Hangouts game on the weekend—definitely the only way I would be able to find a group to play Torchbearer (which is thematically very similar to Dungeon Robber). It was a surprisingly good experience, and once we get the hang of the Roll20 plugin it will be even better.

By: ob1quixote

ob1quixote — Wed, 07 Aug 2013 00:49:59 -0800

I wish I had realized that because I was playing Basic, I should (q)uit instead of (r)etire the first time I died. Also, I really, really wish you could click on the choices instead of using the keyboard.

By: Elementary Penguin

Elementary Penguin — Wed, 07 Aug 2013 02:32:14 -0800

This is so great but I need someone to do this with Traveller. I am serious. I will bake you cupcakes.

By: solarion

solarion — Wed, 07 Aug 2013 03:39:13 -0800

So, I got down to level 13 and had enough gold for four kingdoms. Turns out getting back up is the hard part.

By: grabbingsand

grabbingsand — Wed, 07 Aug 2013 04:01:18 -0800

grabbingsand, a level 0 Dungeon Robber. Descended to level 3 of the dungeon and won 0 GP. Defeated a Bandit. Killed by a Piercer on level 3! REST IN PEACE I'm okay with it.

By: kaibutsu

kaibutsu — Wed, 07 Aug 2013 04:05:11 -0800

Cleric's are pretty great. I got some plate mail, and it becomes a game of slowly blugeoning whatever comes at you while managing your supply of cure light wounds.

By: running order squabble fest

running order squabble fest — Wed, 07 Aug 2013 04:06:39 -0800

Yeah - if you get lucky and find some plate armor before you are dirt napped, your survival chances soar. I've got a mayor and a tavernkeeper in my village, basically thanks to metal person-walls.

By: JHarris

JHarris — Wed, 07 Aug 2013 04:13:35 -0800

Seconded on the choice clicking. Or at least map each set of choices to the same keys on the keyboard. Some choices use numbers, some letters, without apparent pattern.

By: mikelieman

mikelieman — Wed, 07 Aug 2013 04:16:14 -0800

Hunt The Wumpus This was on the school district's HP 2000-F. I remember convincing the aide in the computer lab to change boxes of paper on the tty for us. Good Times... Good Times...

By: mikelieman

mikelieman — Wed, 07 Aug 2013 04:24:39 -0800

Oh my!

By: running order squabble fest

running order squabble fest — Wed, 07 Aug 2013 04:27:26 -0800

(Also, the ration of corridors to rooms in these dungeons is ridonk. It's like being in an episode of Blakes 7...)

By: JHarris

JHarris — Wed, 07 Aug 2013 04:51:50 -0800

Yes, that's the old Star Trek game, mikelieman, which I still think of as the computer version of Star Trek despite being more of a text-based combat simulator than anything else. Someone really should write out a history of that particular program.

By: mikelieman

mikelieman — Wed, 07 Aug 2013 05:16:35 -0800

Someone really should write out a history of that particular program. ( say this in Richard Dawson's voice ) Google says....

By: Ice Cream Socialist

Ice Cream Socialist — Wed, 07 Aug 2013 06:21:56 -0800

How do I get stats? All it shows is that I have a boost on whichever stat I have a boost on, but the rest of the stats are all blank. Is that how it's supposed to be? This is fun, thanks, I will never get anything done again.

By: running order squabble fest

running order squabble fest — Wed, 07 Aug 2013 06:36:08 -0800

I think so - basically, you get "Primary boosted stat", "Other boosted stat" and "regular stat", rather than a numerical value. It's forgotten my progress and is therefore dead to me.

By: Meatbomb

Meatbomb — Wed, 07 Aug 2013 07:31:52 -0800

If you play around with the scrollwheel to resize, you'll see a hidden "reroll" box above the main screen. Just sayin', haven't actually tried it.

By: JHarris

JHarris — Wed, 07 Aug 2013 09:25:50 -0800

mikelieman, I didn't mean just a flat explication of its history on Wikipedia, but a more longform-ish discussion of the game, its history and its popularity, with interviews and such. It's really an interesting game in a software archeology sense.

By: restless_nomad

restless_nomad — Wed, 07 Aug 2013 10:03:27 -0800

OK, I have unlocked the Wizard but now I am going to start over in Advanced. We'll see how long this lasts.

By: restless_nomad

restless_nomad — Wed, 07 Aug 2013 10:33:13 -0800

About half an hour. Man, I killed off a dozen characters and just got zero traction with any of them.

By: kaibutsu

kaibutsu — Wed, 07 Aug 2013 14:40:08 -0800

From that Star Trek link: 12. lf, to save maneuvering time toward the end of the game, you should cold-bloodedly destroy a Starbase, you get a nasty note from Starfleet Command. lf you destroy your last Starbase, you lose the game! (For those who think this is too harsh a penalty, delete lines 5360 - 5390, and you'Il just get a "you dumdum!" -type message on all future status reports.) I love it. Imagine "Call of Duty 37.5: Killing an Arab" having a manual that suggests hex-editing the game to change the game play.

By: JHarris

JHarris — Wed, 07 Aug 2013 15:40:19 -0800

restless_nomad, you have to be a lot more careful with Advanced characters. If you take damage, at low level, you should try to head back to town first thing and rest up at (h)ome. Take out a loan if you need it. And the moment your first character gets 1,000 XP, retire. Do this at every tier to build up the resources your later characters have access to. The game wants you dead, you should play with that understanding.

By: Ardiril

Ardiril — Wed, 07 Aug 2013 15:40:20 -0800

"what could be done to make the act of exploring such a random sequence of locations more meaningful?" Attach a money collector & a payout chute and make a video slot machine of it.

By: restless_nomad

restless_nomad — Wed, 07 Aug 2013 15:47:02 -0800

The game wants you dead, you should play with that understanding. Yeah, I've finally got the first couple of slots filled. I just had a run of really bad luck - like, death on the first encounter sort of luck. Those extra couple hit points turn out to be important. "what could be done to make the act of exploring such a random sequence of locations more meaningful?" One of the interesting thing about this game is that at least half the choices aren't meaningful at all. Which turn you take, what size room you end up in, how wide the corridors are - those have no gameplay effect whatsoever, but are treated with just as much importance by the mechanics as whether to attack or retreat. If it were being used to generate a graph-paper map that would then be used for later games, like it was intended, that would change those rolls significantly. I would love to see someone do a v2.0 of this and tweak it just a *little* - pull out the useless rolls and maybe add a tiny bit of stat management or something. It would be pure, high-test crack.

By: Jalliah

Jalliah — Wed, 07 Aug 2013 16:24:12 -0800

I would love to see someone do a v2.0 of this and tweak it just a *little* - pull out the useless rolls and maybe add a tiny bit of stat management or something. It would be pure, high-test crack Noooooooooooo, not high test! I downloaded Witcher 2 yesterday, a game I've been wanting to play for some time. So what has happened? I've been playing this! I keep saying, okay I just want to unlock the wizard and then I'll play Witcher. That was 4 hours of play time ago. (not all at once).

By: Zimboe Metamonkey

Zimboe Metamonkey — Thu, 08 Aug 2013 01:09:44 -0800

Rapiers and oil flasks FTW!

By: Eideteker

Eideteker — Thu, 08 Aug 2013 02:02:36 -0800

Soooooooooooo addictive.

By: Elementary Penguin

Elementary Penguin — Thu, 08 Aug 2013 02:20:59 -0800

Yeah, I still have games I bought at the summer sale to play, and money I owe Tom Nook to earn, but I have spent all my game time playing this, so thanks, I think, JHarris.

By: running order squabble fest

running order squabble fest — Thu, 08 Aug 2013 04:53:58 -0800

I would love to see someone do a v2.0 of this and tweak it just a *little* - pull out the useless rolls and maybe add a tiny bit of stat management or something. It would be pure, high-test crack. Yeah - waiting while the system rolls for four different TOTALLY MEANINGLESS doors is a bit of a trial. Also, if one was tweaking the original mechanic, one could possibly push the chances of a room being empty below 60%...

By: ook

ook — Thu, 08 Aug 2013 06:46:53 -0800

Does the dungeon level have any effect on anything other than the monster table and how hard it is to get back to the surface? Which is to say if I'm just grinding for treasure should I stay on level 1 forever or are the odds better further down?

By: longbaugh

longbaugh — Thu, 08 Aug 2013 06:49:56 -0800

I'm not sure quite how appropriate it is to add this mid-thread but I've added a MetaTalk about getting involved in PnP RPGs if anyone is interested here. For those of you who don't frequent the Grey, join in and register your interest!

By: ook

ook — Thu, 08 Aug 2013 07:17:01 -0800

Heh, just noticed something: increase the font size on the page and see the new green buttons that are normally just offscreen....

By: restless_nomad

restless_nomad — Thu, 08 Aug 2013 08:36:03 -0800

Which is to say if I'm just grinding for treasure should I stay on level 1 forever or are the odds better further down? It changes the XP for monster kills (10xp per level) and the treasure table (all of the entries are "per level.") Once you get into needing 10k+ xp to get to each new rank, it makes much more sense to grind on a level where you might get 1000pp in a roll rather than 100.

By: kaibutsu

kaibutsu — Thu, 08 Aug 2013 09:02:36 -0800

One of the big differences with my old 'tabletop' version of this was that when you had one of those four-meaningless-doors situations you could try them ALL. Doors tend to lead to chambers and rooms, meaning the chance of encounters was quite a bit higher. This would help the game here quite a bit.

By: restless_nomad

restless_nomad — Thu, 08 Aug 2013 16:40:17 -0800

Version 1.2 is up!

8/8/13: Version 1.2. Revamped the savegame system for more security. Added Settings button for backing up savegame. Also added some inventory slots.

Oh there's all sorts of things you can cheat with if you zoom out. That's... tempting.

By: Eideteker

Eideteker — Thu, 08 Aug 2013 17:20:22 -0800

What does the oil flask do?

By: JHarris

JHarris — Thu, 08 Aug 2013 17:21:22 -0800

Found while fishing: You catch a message in a bottle. It says, 'This underground river flows to a sunless sea, where ships ply black waters carrying grim and unspeakable cargoes. If you get this note, please send me one grim cargo.' An address follows.

By: Eideteker

Eideteker — Thu, 08 Aug 2013 17:58:14 -0800

Oh.... fwoooosh!

By: jepler

jepler — Fri, 09 Aug 2013 06:58:21 -0800

thankfully this isn't html5 so I can't play it on my phone.

By: jepler

jepler — Fri, 09 Aug 2013 07:19:19 -0800

You pull up an exquisite +2 fishing pole! You are now a compleat angler.

By: kaibutsu

kaibutsu — Fri, 09 Aug 2013 07:59:50 -0800

Two new discoveries today: * You can go to levels below level 10, followed swiftly by * Succubi and their level-draining attacks SUUUUUUUUCK. Got knocked back to level 0, but had 14,000gp in haul from the raid, which brought me to just below where I'd started....

By: kaibutsu

kaibutsu — Fri, 09 Aug 2013 08:07:05 -0800

except that I'm now noticing that the level loss doesn't seem to have reset my attack bonus properly (playing as a fighter), so I now have +14 to hit. Sweet.

By: restless_nomad

restless_nomad — Fri, 09 Aug 2013 13:33:31 -0800

More thoughts! - Since the update, not everything is showing "Equip", but if it's equippable and you click "Stow," it'll equip it properly anyway. - There's a chance that a successful Parley will result in the monster becoming your henchman. - Using a whip on a Giant Rat in combat may result in it becoming your henchman. (I don't know if this applies to all creatures, only non-intelligent ones, or whatever.) I still think the Cleric is the best class - healing spells, free healing in town - but Con is the best Advanced stat imo. Surviving to get even basic equipment is so freaking hard that starting with one more hit point than a d6 roll can be critical.

By: JonahBlack

JonahBlack — Sat, 10 Aug 2013 11:43:05 -0800

I usually take the loan of 100 gp from the bank, and buy chainmail and a shield (or chainmail and a sword) right off the bat. That dramatically increased my survivability.

By: restless_nomad

restless_nomad — Sat, 10 Aug 2013 11:56:41 -0800

I may have changed my mind on the Cleric. A Thief with Wisdom and a ten-foot pole is immune to nearly all traps, which is a *huge* help. (Arrow/spear traps seem to use a different roll, and the ten-foot pole doesn't apply to poisoned treasure, apparently.) Also, the fact that parleying on a "monster with treasure" roll doesn't actually get you the treasure annoys the shit out of me. All out of proportion, really.

By: boo_radley

boo_radley — Mon, 12 Aug 2013 14:51:00 -0800

restless_nomad: "I may have changed my mind on the Cleric. A Thief with Wisdom and a ten-foot pole is immune to nearly all traps, which is a *huge* help. (Arrow/spear traps seem to use a different roll, and the ten-foot pole doesn't apply to poisoned treasure, apparently.) Also, the fact that parleying on a "monster with treasure" roll doesn't actually get you the treasure annoys the shit out of me. All out of proportion, really." Parley isn't hypnotizing. You talk, you agree to work things out without fighting and move on. READ THE PLAYERS MANUAL, PEOPLE.

By: restless_nomad

restless_nomad — Mon, 12 Aug 2013 15:29:39 -0800

Right, but if I'm going to bother with diplomacy I'm going to talk the bastard into sharing the loot. Otherwise why bother?

By: Gygesringtone

Gygesringtone — Tue, 13 Aug 2013 09:18:33 -0800

Right, but if I'm going to bother with diplomacy I'm going to talk the bastard into sharing the loot. Otherwise why bother? Yeah, there's a couple of reasons I can think of, but they're all based on scenarios involving high charisma and being almost dead. Also, I'm pretty proud of my sporadic playing getting me to Noblewoman playing only on Advanced. It turns out my super-cautious playing style honed over generations of Angband\Moria variants comes in handy for this kind of game, even if it means I take forever beating turn based strategy games.

By: restless_nomad

restless_nomad — Tue, 13 Aug 2013 09:35:33 -0800

Really my objection is just that it's not parallel to the other options, so I keep forgetting it doesn't work like I expect it to. Sneaking, spell-casting, and fighting get you the loot, so I expect the other stat-dependent skill to work similarly. That said, rolling with a pair of giant centipedes or carrion crawlers as a charismatic cleric is pretty damned sweet.

By: Gygesringtone

Gygesringtone — Tue, 13 Aug 2013 10:25:43 -0800

Yeah, I can see that. I don't know, for me, the fun of these games is learning the weird little quirks in the rules and figuring out how to exploit them. At least, that's what I tell myself when I realize I just spent 5 min. hitting variations of "e, 1, e, f, a, a, b, l, m, s, b, 4, h, w"

By: Gygesringtone

Gygesringtone — Tue, 13 Aug 2013 10:37:52 -0800

And yes I did run through a scenario in my head to get those letters.

By: JHarris

JHarris — Tue, 13 Aug 2013 11:49:27 -0800

Hmm, the first part is... (e)xplore, (1) [passage choice], (e)xplore, (f)orce open a door ...and the last part is... (b)acktrack, (l)eave, (m)arket, (s)ell, (b)ank, (4) [stash some amount of gold], (h)ome, rest for a (w)eek. Can't remember off-hand what the 'a's are.

By: restless_nomad

restless_nomad — Tue, 13 Aug 2013 11:50:17 -0800

Attack, attack!

By: Elementary Penguin

Elementary Penguin — Tue, 13 Aug 2013 12:12:52 -0800

I usually take the loan of 100 gp from the bank, and buy chainmail and a shield (or chainmail and a sword) right off the bat. That dramatically increased my survivability. Thinking bat this for a few says, I think armor and shield is the way to go. Most of the early monsters only have a few HP, so the 1d8 damage the sword does is not as helpful as the extra AC the shield gives you. One good "monster + treasure" will earn you enough to repay the loan and get a sword if you really want one.

By: Gygesringtone

Gygesringtone — Tue, 13 Aug 2013 12:22:54 -0800

Pretty much, I was figuring I killed any level one (I only had to backtrack once) critter that wasn't a skeleton (I run from those guys early game) and found a mid level random item (finding treasure would've involved a 't') that covered my resting bills and had 50 left over to deposit, so I think a statue would work. I didn't put in the mouse clicks so there could've been equipping a weapon (if it was kobold) or selling the glands (if it was one of the bugs), but I was imagining a rat originally.

By: jepler

jepler — Thu, 29 Aug 2013 13:56:54 -0800

I'm still playing a couple of weeks later. I've now retired a king on Basic and have a second Basic character at about 80k experience. And I still can't decide which is my favorite class—they've all got some great features. It sure is nice to just hit most things to death, as I can now with my level 10 fighter (AC20, +13 to hit). There may also be a few things in here I haven't encountered; earlier today was the first time I actually rolled a Libram of Improvement, for example. While not everything is the same, the board game rules clarify a lot of things that happen and for instance explain the different powers of each monster.

By: Eideteker

Eideteker — Thu, 29 Aug 2013 15:12:07 -0800

Back, and to the left... Back, and to the left... Back, and to the left... Back, and to the left... Back, and to the left...