Comments on: The average lifespan of a Saul Bass logo is 35 years

The average lifespan of a Saul Bass logo is 35 years

exogenous — Fri, 28 Feb 2014 06:18:26 -0800

Logos designed by Saul Bass (previously: 1, 2, etc.) have a certain staying power

By: DoctorFedora

DoctorFedora — Fri, 28 Feb 2014 06:26:21 -0800

This is fantastic.

By: entropicamericana

entropicamericana — Fri, 28 Feb 2014 06:26:39 -0800

And every one that has been replaced has been replaced by an inferior logo. Imagine.

By: The Underpants Monster

The Underpants Monster — Fri, 28 Feb 2014 06:27:59 -0800

I get more pleasure than I should from walking over those cast-iron manhole covers with the original Bell logo still on them. There are two on my daily commute walk.

By: Etrigan

Etrigan — Fri, 28 Feb 2014 06:29:13 -0800

I wonder how many boxes of cookies it took to pay the genius who suggested they add bangs to one of the silhouettes in the Girl Scout logo.

By: nushustu

nushustu — Fri, 28 Feb 2014 06:30:47 -0800

No man, fuck that guy, what we need is more gradients. GRADIENTS ALL THE WAY DOWN. /hamburger

By: talitha_kumi

talitha_kumi — Fri, 28 Feb 2014 06:37:23 -0800

How do these compare to logos designed by others of the same era? Is it that his logos in particular are extremely long-lasting, or is it that the era of companies endlessly rebranding and fiddling with their logos only began in more recent years?

By: jeremias

jeremias — Fri, 28 Feb 2014 06:37:44 -0800

There's a "meta" level of excellence going on here, not just with the logos themselves but with the use of gradients. Bass only used them in a few cases and when he did they were justified. For example that Hanna-Barbera logo, no way that could be improved!

By: Elementary Penguin

Elementary Penguin — Fri, 28 Feb 2014 06:37:49 -0800

I love the new ones that look exactly like the Saul Bass ones, except with a gradient so that they look 3D.

By: Benny Andajetz

Benny Andajetz — Fri, 28 Feb 2014 06:38:00 -0800

The other greatest logo designer.

By: entropicamericana

entropicamericana — Fri, 28 Feb 2014 06:38:40 -0800

There is a special hell waiting for the designers who have shit up Saul Bass and Paul Rand logos with bevels and gradients.

By: selfnoise

selfnoise — Fri, 28 Feb 2014 06:39:49 -0800

Nothing like some good old corporate heraldry. Fascinating that some of the most bland companies have some of the most ideologically expressive logos.

By: Potomac Avenue

Potomac Avenue — Fri, 28 Feb 2014 06:43:43 -0800

Loll MINOLTA. "Redesign this logo" "Ok boss" *adds lens flare* "Brilliant!!!"

By: entropicamericana

entropicamericana — Fri, 28 Feb 2014 06:43:47 -0800

Saul Bass pitch video for Bell System rebranding. Highly worth watching, even if you think you wouldn't be interested.

By: ardgedee

ardgedee — Fri, 28 Feb 2014 06:50:31 -0800

> Is it that his logos in particular are extremely long-lasting, or is it that the era of companies endlessly rebranding and fiddling with their logos only began in more recent years? The big corporate dinosaurs we think of today really came into their own in the 1950s, which coincidentally (or not) was one of the great eras of graphic design when Rand, Bass, and William Golden thrived. So these corporations define their identities while they are young and flush with cash. They eventually become wealthy and conservative, and will prefer to evolve their identities slowly. So all those great logos like IBM's (first designed in 1956), ABC's and UPS's have updated over the years, as much to keep up with contemporary tastes as to take advantage of modern print technologies -- for example, reliably printing multiple colors and gradients is really only possible with computer technologies. If those guys were alive today and at the peak of their careers, they'd consider every modern effect at their disposal, just as they did in the fifties.

By: Thorzdad

Thorzdad — Fri, 28 Feb 2014 06:50:36 -0800

...or is it that the era of companies endlessly rebranding and fiddling with their logos only began in more recent years? It's a more-or-less recent thing. Mergers, buyouts, etc. That and the rise of Marketing and the concept of Brand Identity as a driving force. I love Bass' eye for design. And this is a great reference. I had no idea he was responsible for so many great logos. That said, I really, really, really have to wonder what he was thinking when he did this one. Just put on your thinking-like-a-15-year-old-boy hat, and remember...this is for the YWCA.

By: Navelgazer

Navelgazer — Fri, 28 Feb 2014 06:58:25 -0800

I have to wonder whether it was committee thinking or just one stubborn individual's bad thought processes that led to the Girl Scouts' logo redesign, but that's one where I'm not going to blame the designer, because it looks to me like the designer recognized that he or she was being tasked with replacing a perfect Saul Bass logo with something that would inevitably be inferior, and decided that adding the bangs would be just enough difference to get away with it without sullying the original with gradients.

By: ChrisTN

ChrisTN — Fri, 28 Feb 2014 06:59:20 -0800

By: CBrachyrhynchos

CBrachyrhynchos — Fri, 28 Feb 2014 06:59:24 -0800

I'm skeptical about the idea of averaging logos. It wouldn't surprise me if there wasn't a fair quantity of design work not on the list that was short-term ephemera (such as sports event branding) or for clients that had little recognition or impact before they merged/died/reorganized. That's not to slight Bass, just that a lot of art involves throwing lots of stuff against walls and remembering the classic designs that happen to stick.

By: selfnoise

selfnoise — Fri, 28 Feb 2014 06:59:29 -0800

One thing I think is interesting about corporate logos is the tension between an internally-focused expression of identity ("this is who we are", said to ourselves) and an external marketing strategy. I feel like more logos these days are about the latter, but there's always both ideas present.

By: Dr-Baa

Dr-Baa — Fri, 28 Feb 2014 07:02:28 -0800

I love the Hanna Barbera logo. I can hear the sound in my head just by looking at it.

By: ceribus peribus

ceribus peribus — Fri, 28 Feb 2014 07:09:25 -0800

United's logo wasn't really redesigned; they merged into Continental in 2010 and I guess the globe one beat the other in Pokémon style combat.

By: jimmythefish

jimmythefish — Fri, 28 Feb 2014 07:13:48 -0800

Can you make them bigger?

By: Kabanos

Kabanos — Fri, 28 Feb 2014 07:19:53 -0800

More logos from the 1950's to early 70's.

By: Katemonkey

Katemonkey — Fri, 28 Feb 2014 07:26:08 -0800

Whoever put that 3D effect on the Lawry's logo deserves death by being sliced with papercuts and then dipped in their taco seasoning. It will be painful, but you will smell delicious.

By: maudlin

maudlin — Fri, 28 Feb 2014 07:32:34 -0800

"Redesign this logo" "Ok boss" *adds lens flare* "Brilliant!!!" You want lens flare? I'll give you flare.

By: Sys Rq

Sys Rq — Fri, 28 Feb 2014 07:38:06 -0800

"I like the Saul Bass logo for our Dixie cups, but I'm not sure if merely using the word Dixie conveys just how racist we really are. Maybe add a swastika?"

By: scose

scose — Fri, 28 Feb 2014 07:40:37 -0800

I disagree that all of the original logos were classics. Some of them feel harsh and generic, modern for modern's sake. They make me think of the history of the Prudential logo. They pulled back from abstraction to a clean, but illustrative, logo.

By: symbioid

symbioid — Fri, 28 Feb 2014 07:46:10 -0800

The Warner Communications one I saw in the Warner-Brothers logo retrospective the other day(was that posted on the blue? I think so.) And I'm like "I remember that logo!" And thought how amazingly awesome it is as a logo, then saw it was Saul Bass and thought "OF COURSE!" What makes his work great, you ask? Simply... Simplicity.

By: Benny Andajetz

Benny Andajetz — Fri, 28 Feb 2014 07:49:10 -0800

By: CBrachyrhynchos

CBrachyrhynchos — Fri, 28 Feb 2014 07:50:01 -0800

So, as a total non-designer, I'm not sure I have an eye for what makes a "good" or "classic" logo (apart from the "I know what I like" business). I agree that Bass' logos are terrific and they're obviously long-lived, but can someone give a clue as to why? I'd love to be better informed. Balance is the key word I'd use. Bass manages to hit multiple sweet spots. He uses geometric abstractions without taking it to the level of just being about geometry. There's a theory out there that memorable designs require a little work by the viewer to understand, but not so much that the viewer gives up in frustration. Bass gives you a set of shapes, and just a beat later, your pattern recognition clicks and says, "oh, it's the letter 'A'." Many of his logos function on an iconic level of resembling the concept or name they represent. Some of them manage to incorporate multiple symbols without excess complexity. The Girl Scouts of America logo combines feminine profiles and the cloverleaf trefoil. Multiple airline logos echo the company name with wing-like shapes. He has a great knack for balancing positive (inked) and negative (white) space. And for framing and proportion. Practically speaking, the GSA, Bell, and Alcoa logos are simple enough that they can be embossed onto cookies or stamped into metal and still be recognizable.

By: graymouser

graymouser — Fri, 28 Feb 2014 07:51:10 -0800

I think of all of them, the old AT&T "Death Star" seems the most like a "period" logo that has since been shoved aside with good cause. For a revamped "Death Star" and lower case - but it's really the only redesign that isn't markedly inferior.

By: smackfu

smackfu — Fri, 28 Feb 2014 08:00:38 -0800

Brand New did a write-up at the time of the Girl Scout logo redesign.

By: escape from the potato planet

escape from the potato planet — Fri, 28 Feb 2014 08:02:01 -0800

There's something so solid and reassuring about the Bell logo. I don't know how much of that is owed to the design, and how much is due to the familiarity and omnipresence of it. It's less a signifier for a specific company, or even for telephony in general, and more an icon for human communication or somesuch.

By: Sys Rq

Sys Rq — Fri, 28 Feb 2014 08:08:10 -0800

Bass wasn't infallible. His Lawry's and Celanese logos are particularly godawful. Also, he cannibalized a lot. In addition to those hideous orange swirls, compare Warner and Frontier Airlines: Simplified letterform made of three parallel lines set inside a losenge. And it seems like whenever he was stuck for ideas, he'd just draw a circle and put some lines through it: AT&T, Minolta, Rockwell, Continental. He was no Paul Rand.

By: Thorzdad

Thorzdad — Fri, 28 Feb 2014 08:20:29 -0800

It's much, much harder to design a quality logo than most people think. This. A bajillion times, this. I love designing logos, but they also make me sweat bullets. It's such a hyper-focused project, with not a little of the client's image and ego involved. One thing that also needs to be pointed out is that these things aren't developed in a vacuum. Even Bass involved his staff, evaluating iteration after iteration long before anything is shown to the client.

By: yoink

yoink — Fri, 28 Feb 2014 08:21:49 -0800

Brand New did a write-up at the time of the Girl Scout logo redesign.

Adding the bangs on the first profile really helps in making this logo more contemporary, as the old profile, with the hair pulled back, made the girl too matronly. The perkier nose is cuter and the lips look a little less numb. The one thing that stands out more in this revision is the length of the necks, where they feel a little too stretched in this rendition by being so angular, whereas before the effect was diminished by the curvature. In terms of the shape of the trefoil itself, the update is a vast improvement with the new horizontal axis asymmetry, making it look more like a badge than a four-leaf clover.

As with a great deal of design writing, this mistakes unsupported assertion for analysis. "Too matronly"? Hair without bangs is "matronly"? To whom? To say nothing of the fact that the hair is not "pulled back," it is simply tucked behind the ears--as worn by myriads of young girls all over America. I guess it's fair enough to call the nose "perkier," though this whole line of analysis seems to be based on a misunderstanding that Girl Scouts are all preteens. The lips looking "numb" seems to me a purely imaginary notion. And why, oh why, is it a "vast improvement" to not have the logo look like a four-leaf clover?

By: RobotHero

RobotHero — Fri, 28 Feb 2014 08:30:34 -0800

Dare I say it, but I like the new United Way logo better, mostly because the fingers look more like real fingers instead of four hotdogs.

By: Thorzdad

Thorzdad — Fri, 28 Feb 2014 08:32:12 -0800

There's something so solid and reassuring about the Bell logo. I don't know how much of that is owed to the design, and how much is due to the familiarity and omnipresence of it. It helps is you understand that the logo was designed to stand alongside the various Bell Systems' names (Indiana Bell, Northwestern Bell, Pacific Bell, etc.) Those names were all set in Helvetica. Seen in that light, the logo almost looks to be a Helvetica dingbat, as it shares a stylistic, family resemblance with Helvetica.

By: Alexandra Kitty

Alexandra Kitty — Fri, 28 Feb 2014 08:36:15 -0800

He was elegant and nailed it. Why people have to mess with perfection is beyond me...

By: yoink

yoink — Fri, 28 Feb 2014 09:00:13 -0800

He was no Paul Rand. Well, degustibus and all that. Looking through this collection of Paul Rand logos, I have to say there are precious few that seem to my eye to measure up to Bass's. There's certainly some good ones there, but a lot that seem a bit too busy and fussy.

By: nushustu

nushustu — Fri, 28 Feb 2014 09:04:08 -0800

why, oh why, is it a "vast improvement" to not have the logo look like a four-leaf clover? I think it's because the Girl Scouts already had a shape that they use regularly: the trefoil. It's sort of like a three-leaf clover. Their original cookie (still sold) is a gingerbread trefoil. So I'm with them on that one: it's an improvement. I also prefer the bangs. While girls do often pull their hair behind their ears, the silhouettes from the original do remind me of some matronly school teacher from Little House on the Prairie, or maybe Nellie Olson's mom. Either way, this is one time where some minor tweaks really did improve on the original logo.

By: roll truck roll

roll truck roll — Fri, 28 Feb 2014 09:11:52 -0800

Whenever I read one of these articles about Bass, my mind is blown to learn more things that he was behind. I didn't know about the Hanna-Barberra star logo before. Dare I say it, but I like the new United Way logo better, mostly because the fingers look more like real fingers instead of four hotdogs. I also like the flat colors in the new one way more than the gradients. It's funny, it's kind of the opposite change from many of the other changes in the article.

By: Dr-Baa

Dr-Baa — Fri, 28 Feb 2014 09:16:41 -0800

My brain has always seen the Westinghouse logo as a crying triclops. I love the Colorforms and ABC logos though.

By: The Underpants Monster

The Underpants Monster — Fri, 28 Feb 2014 09:45:31 -0800

Although they were designed by Norm Inouye (of the TransAm "Screaming Chicken" fame), the the original EPCOT Center logos seem to have been heavily inspired by Bass's Bell design.

By: Benny Andajetz

Benny Andajetz — Fri, 28 Feb 2014 10:05:22 -0800

If you want a truly long-lived logo, General Electric's has remained essentially unchanged for 114 years.

By: evilcolonel

evilcolonel — Fri, 28 Feb 2014 10:10:01 -0800

Another designer from this same echelon is Raymond Loewy

By: entropicamericana

entropicamericana — Fri, 28 Feb 2014 10:18:24 -0800

If you're going to bring Loewy, I'm going to have to bring up Henry Dreyfuss, which sort of brings us somewhat full-circle back to the Bell System.

By: egypturnash

egypturnash — Fri, 28 Feb 2014 10:31:52 -0800

Hanna-Barbera: Logo lifespan: 34 years and counting (1979- ) I kinda want to say that H-B abandoned the Bass logo in the 90s? Ah, a little googling says yes. This exhaustive page has the Bass star from 1979-1992, and a 3D version showing up as late as 2003. But around the turn of the century they mostly started using the script logo atop a circularly/ovally/rectangularly-cropped picture of a character. I remember seeing photos of the new studio set up after Warners bought them; the outside was covered with a huge mural full of close crops of H-B characters, and the script logo. That said I think I do occasionally still see some variant of it turning up in a bid for nostalgia on modern versions of the H-B characters, but... really ain't no new H-B stuff being made. "Today, Hanna-Barbera is an in-name-only unit of Warner Bros. Animation, which administers the rights to its catalog and characters. New Warner productions based upon the studio's "classic" properties such as Quick Draw McGraw are copyrighted by Hanna-Barbera though Warner Bros. Animation is the one that produces these works. Most Cartoon Network shows it previously produced are copyrighted by the channel itself." - Wikipedia (A lot of Bass' logos feel timeless, but the H-B star really screams EIGHTIES!!! to me. It's very much of its times, just like that rotating rainbow SPECIAL that heralded some one-off thing on CBS.)

By: univac

univac — Fri, 28 Feb 2014 10:59:50 -0800

So the Girl Scouts felt it was important to add bangs to the girl in front?

By: BlackLeotardFront

BlackLeotardFront — Fri, 28 Feb 2014 11:01:29 -0800

I thought the ONLY one improved by a future designer was the United Way one. The solid tricolor thing really improves it, in my opinion. Maybe it's safe to take gradients out of Bass logos but not put them in. Well, let's be honest: it's never safe to put gradients in. We should entomb all knowledge of gradients in the Mountains of Madness.

By: Sys Rq

Sys Rq — Fri, 28 Feb 2014 11:01:41 -0800

I kinda want to say that H-B abandoned the Bass logo in the 90s? Ah, a little googling says yes. Yep. And judging from this, there were at least two distinct versions of the swirly star: The perfectly circular one pictured, and a weird misshapen one where the star does an extra twist and ruins everything. (The latter is the one I remember from my childhood.)

By: Jawn

Jawn — Fri, 28 Feb 2014 11:11:55 -0800

Both the bangs and the neck changes on the Girl Scout logo increase the width of what were previously the thinnest sections of positive space. I wonder if one consideration may have been the ability to cleanly stamp the logo on things like, say, cookies?

By: asperity

asperity — Fri, 28 Feb 2014 12:01:23 -0800

I like a lot of the features of the Girl Scouts rebranding, and on seeing it in use, I'm sold on having the logo have a pointy bottom, as the shape looks good when they put other text on top, plus of course now it's at least sort of possible to describe it as a trefoil. But bangs and upturned noses? That's on par with the Strawberry Shortcake redesign. A hairstyle you've gotta have straight hair to achieve without a lot of work, and a nose shape that's a common intended outcome of plastic surgery. Hmph.

By: ericbop

ericbop — Fri, 28 Feb 2014 12:11:06 -0800

Interesting (to me) that both Bass and Rand were Jewish. Come to think of it, the Star of David is a pretty awesome logo...

By: Captain Chesapeake

Captain Chesapeake — Fri, 28 Feb 2014 12:49:12 -0800

My brain has always seen the Westinghouse logo as a crying triclops. Thanks you ruined this logo forever!

By: Brocktoon

Brocktoon — Fri, 28 Feb 2014 19:35:45 -0800

I wouldn't blame the designer for any of these "updates", and woe unto anyone that does. Executives think that anyone with Word can design a logo, and they're too busy outsourcing and slashing benefits to do it themselves.

By: Mick

Mick — Sun, 02 Mar 2014 07:49:44 -0800

No one is gonna mention the god-awful chins on the new Girl Scout logo? That's the most offensive part.