Comments on: Surprise lap dances are not cool.

Surprise lap dances are not cool.

roomthreeseventeen — Mon, 04 Aug 2014 10:28:17 -0800

Stephanie Woodward is a 26 year-old Floridian woman who blogs about dating. Ms Woodward is an attorney who happens to have spina bifida.

"Since there are 1 billion people with disabilities around the world, it should come as no surprise that a plethora of disability-specific dating sites exist. Phrases like "Find your disabled soul mate!" and "Playing disabled cupid" are sprinkled across websites like DisabilityDating.com and Dating4Disabled.com. While there are apparently hundreds of registered users on these websites, none of the individuals who spoke to The Daily Beast said they would use them.

By: goethean

goethean — Mon, 04 Aug 2014 10:48:43 -0800

I'm so glad I'm not dating anymore.

By: ThePinkSuperhero

ThePinkSuperhero — Mon, 04 Aug 2014 10:50:42 -0800

Later that night, as we were leaving the game, we started talking to one of the Marlin's employees who was super cool. The guy suddenly asked "Are you guys in a relationship? At the same time that I blurted out "NO!" I heard Rocket Man say "Yeah. Kind of." OMG dead. She's funny. I wish her much luck in her dating future, even if finding a good match wouldn't be as entertaining as all these bad ones.

By: spaceman_spiff

spaceman_spiff — Mon, 04 Aug 2014 11:07:27 -0800

"...Are you handicapped cause in half the pics your [sic] standing and the others your [sic] not so I'm confused." "Hello there. why [sic] are you using wheelchairs?" I don't have an OKCupid account anymore, and every time I think about trying online dating again - because, in theory, I like the idea of finding people online and going "hey, you seem interesting, let's meet and see if we click?" - I think about how fucking surreal the online-dating process is as a person with a disability, and I decide that I'm not that into it. :P It's also really hard to think about how to disclose. I did mention it on my profile, and my wheelchair was pretty obvious in my pics. And I wanted that there, because I wanted to be up front - I'm open to talking about this, let's not walk on eggshells or be nervous around each other, but on the other hand, the more you do that, the more it becomes an inevitable topic of conversation that can steal the focus from everything else.

By: spaceman_spiff

spaceman_spiff — Mon, 04 Aug 2014 11:09:35 -0800

Also, in non-dating news, Stephanie Woodward also wrote a fantastic post called The ADA is Not Enough" for the 24th anniversary of its passage.

By: Ephelump Jockey

Ephelump Jockey — Mon, 04 Aug 2014 11:10:22 -0800

Just hilarious! Every "nice guy" ever should read that first post. Also kudos for the alt-text on the images. This blind guy appreciated it. And of course disabled people don't want to use dating sites for the disabled. It's condescending, and it probably attracts folks in it for fetish reasons. Being the object of someone's fetish is possibly the grossest thing ever. Plus fet life, cornered the market, etc. I wish her luck. Definitely subscribed.

By: roomthreeseventeen

roomthreeseventeen — Mon, 04 Aug 2014 11:10:38 -0800

I think about how fucking surreal the online-dating process is as a person with a disability, and I decide that I'm not that into it I went on a date with a guy who used crutches with arm braces to get around. He hadn't mentioned it at all in his profile, and they weren't in his pictures. It didn't bother me at all, obviously, although I spent a lot of time afterwards thinking about whether or not he could tell from my face that he wasn't what I had been expecting. Again, that's all on me for making able-ist assumptions, but I did worry about it. He and I were not a good match because of a lot of other things, though.

By: Ephelump Jockey

Ephelump Jockey — Mon, 04 Aug 2014 11:22:24 -0800

From the Daily Beast article: "Wheelchair users may only post photos that show their bodies from the waist up, or people with visual impairments may not mention their guide dogs and white canes in bios. Only when they schedule an in-person date with someone do they mention their disability. Tiffiny Carlson calls this "dropping the D-bomb." Carlson, a writer who uses a wheelchair due to spinal cord injury, has been online dating since 1998. "I always disclose my disability right away in my profile and photos," she says via email. Just like a messy divorce-in-progress or the fact that there are three kids under the age of 10 waiting at home, Carlson feels that disability is an important fact that potential partners should know from the beginning." This is super interesting to me as someone with a disability. I've been online dating successfully for like ten years and I've always opted for not mentioning it in the profile itself, but before the real date. I think that's a fair amount of leeway. Part of the nature of online dating as a disabled person is that you get a fair shake with anyone you talk to right off. That's something you'll never get in the real world, shameful as it is. Everyone's going to bring their own particular baggage along when they see you and it gets old fielding the same old bullshit day in and day out. Plus, you have the opportunity to demonstrate just how mundane and regular you are before you tell the person. And I think that can be powerful for people with mistaken assumptions. But as a partially blind person it's a lot different for me because without a cane or dog or whatever, and because of how competently I do my thing, my disability is often invisible. I'm sure that makes a pretty big difference in my experiences versus those of someone with a more prominent disability.

By: spaceman_spiff

spaceman_spiff — Mon, 04 Aug 2014 11:25:06 -0800

(Oh god, I'm reading through the actual blog now and this is so brilliant.)

By: DWRoelands

DWRoelands — Mon, 04 Aug 2014 11:26:32 -0800

Man, she did not really paint a flattering picture of her behavior at all. I wish that rocket scientist well.

By: tommasz

tommasz — Mon, 04 Aug 2014 11:53:57 -0800

Oh man, that rocket scientist could be me 30 years ago.

By: en forme de poire

en forme de poire — Mon, 04 Aug 2014 11:58:34 -0800

Man, she did not really paint a flattering picture of her behavior at all. Before I read the story and had just read this comment, I was expecting something like her ditching him in the middle of a date, or lying about something serious, or something. I mean, I suspect she is exaggerating her own awkwardness in an unflattering way for comic effect, but even if she isn't, this just seemed like pretty normal dating tribulations to me. Dating is hard, and everything always feels extremely personal, and it's easy to accidentally send totally wrong messages or say something that comes off much harsher than you actually mean.

By: Chuffy

Chuffy — Mon, 04 Aug 2014 11:59:43 -0800

Awkward moment #27436342. Cool. Is this example #27436342 of why Rocket Scientists begin visiting PUA sites?

By: maudlin

maudlin — Mon, 04 Aug 2014 12:02:44 -0800

How not to hit on a girl in a wheelchair (part of her YouTube playlist) Stop Telling Me That I'm Pretty for a Girl in a Wheelchair: How Your Words Contribute to Violence Against Women with Disabilities

By: Pantalaimon

Pantalaimon — Mon, 04 Aug 2014 12:10:30 -0800

By: Talez

Talez — Mon, 04 Aug 2014 12:13:41 -0800

So I read the first blog post. Can anyone tell me why the Rocket Man deserve so much rudeness and sneering contempt from her other than being awkward? I kept looking for signs of "Nice Guy Syndrome" but I really don't see evidence for it. Because when you're an adult you strap on your big boy pants, admit that you like someone, take the appropriate action and let the chips fall as they may. You're not in high school and hedging your bets with that coy "do you like like me?" crap anymore. She's a strong, confident woman, not a porcelain doll.

By: KathrynT

KathrynT — Mon, 04 Aug 2014 12:16:53 -0800

and because he *didn't actually like her that much.* But he kept asking her out.

By: straight

straight — Mon, 04 Aug 2014 12:17:03 -0800

There's a lot she doesn't make clear in those rocket scientist posts. She writes like she really likes him and really wants him to kiss her, but then when he doesn't, she just writes him off and doesn't want to see him anymore but does anyway, but never really talks about why she lost interest, either to him or the reader.

By: maudlin

maudlin — Mon, 04 Aug 2014 12:18:55 -0800

Her full blog posts on Rocket Man seem like an honest play by play account of a few dates that are at least as hard on her as him. When you read the summaries at the end of each post, she seems quite respectful of him and aware of her awkwardness and missteps, too. Blog Post #1: Abridged Version: Smart guy asked me to a hockey game. We got to talk for approximately ten minutes before an old, loud talkative guy and his quiet friend took over our date. I was accidentally a douche when I was getting in my car and while my date agreed that I'm a douche, he wants to take me on another date anyway, except without the old men who took over our date. However, the quiet old man would rather just date me himself. Lessons Learned: 1. Sometimes it's the nice, silent guy that's the creeper. 2. Panthers suck at playing hockey. 3. Rocket scientists are real – they're not just fictional professionals that we compare stupid people to. Blog Post #2: Abbreviated Version: I went on multiple awkward dates with a super smart, sweet, and modest Rocket Scientist. I wasn't super into him, but he was so nice that I didn't know how to stop dating him because I didn't want to hurt him. So I decided to convince myself to become super into him and I started being nicer to him. When I started being nice he thought that I was a Stage 5 Clinger. When he told me that I laughed and told him I didn't like him. Things were super awkward, then we didn't talk for a while, and he randomly texted me today to make sure that I still watch his HBO because he's such a fucking nice guy. Lessons Learned: 1. There are some really nice guys in the world – just not in Miami. 2. I need to learn how to stop dating people I'm not into instead of continuing to date them because I don't want to hurt their feelings. 3. Spaceships don't have shoes. 4. HBOGo passwords are the greatest things on earth.

By: Lexica

Lexica — Mon, 04 Aug 2014 12:19:17 -0800

"Sneering contempt" seems like a very strong way of characterizing how she describes him. To me it read more like a narrative of "his awkwardness collided with my awkwardness and we got awkward squared! how awkward! and a little funny, and maybe I can learn something from it for next time."

By: Ephelump Jockey

Ephelump Jockey — Mon, 04 Aug 2014 12:19:26 -0800

"Because when you're an adult you strap on your big boy pants, admit that you like someone, take the appropriate action and let the chips fall as they may. You're not in high school and hedging your bets with that coy "do you like like me?" crap anymore. She's a strong, confident woman, not a porcelain doll." This. She's snotty and derisive but dude just bone up and tell her what's going on. The whole scenario just seemed like typical twenties dating stuff to me and I'm surprised anyone would be inclined to feel sorry for a guy that didn't have the fortitude to communicate like an adult.

By: bradbane

bradbane — Mon, 04 Aug 2014 12:20:16 -0800

Man, she did not really paint a flattering picture of her behavior at all. I wish that rocket scientist well. I thought some of these were obviously framed for the hilarity of it, because dating is weird and we all do weird things, but then I kept reading to the story where she tracks the trust fund dude down and leaves fruit with :( sadfaces drawn on them on his car for not texting her back. I mean there's awkward dating hilarity, and then there's crazy.

By: straight

straight — Mon, 04 Aug 2014 12:22:50 -0800

The confusing part is what happens between the time she's disappointed he hasn't kissed her yet and when she stops wanting to see him at all (but does anyway).

By: en forme de poire

en forme de poire — Mon, 04 Aug 2014 12:58:03 -0800

Yeah wow "sneering contempt" seems like projecting some completely other situation onto this one. I mean she describes herself as "terrible" and a "sassy douche" and him as a "patient saint," for shit's sake. She said some things that came out harsher than she meant them but she also made an effort to get past her lack of chemistry and tried to filter herself more. That's not freaking contempt.

By: pineappleheart

pineappleheart — Mon, 04 Aug 2014 13:01:34 -0800

Sometimes you don't see long-term potential with someone but you still want to make out. Sometimes you think maybe there'll be a spark you didn't expect if you do make out. Sometimes you want to make out, but the other person delays it for so long that you lose interest. People make mistakes when dating. I think she makes it pretty clear that she doesn't think she handled the situation in an ideal manner. Anyway, I laughed really hard at the series of "skiing accident" pictures.

By: TwoStride

TwoStride — Mon, 04 Aug 2014 13:04:55 -0800

Ok, I know that there's a very serious and fascinating discussion to be had about disability, dating, and perception, but can we talk about this line from the Daily Beast for a second: And for those '80s kids who long for the days of "business in the front, party in the back," MulletPassions.com exists. MULLETPASSIONS. I would have thought it was for hockey fans?

By: hapax_legomenon

hapax_legomenon — Mon, 04 Aug 2014 13:10:40 -0800

MULLETPASSIONS. This was my favorite part of the whole post! Who knew?

By: Justinian

Justinian — Mon, 04 Aug 2014 14:25:50 -0800

I think she didn't paint a particularly flattering picture of either of them. He was clearly clueless and couldn't read cues. On the other hand she was repeatedly offended that he didn't try to kiss her at the same time she kept saying she had no intention of allowing him to kiss her. Remember, the one thing all your bad dates have in common is you!

By: Justinian

Justinian — Mon, 04 Aug 2014 14:27:34 -0800

She's a strong, confident woman, not a porcelain doll. She doesn't comes across as either a porcelain doll or a strong confident woman. Not in her dating life as she reports it, at least. I'm sure she's pretty strong in other areas.

By: Mitrovarr

Mitrovarr — Mon, 04 Aug 2014 14:54:25 -0800

Yeah, she does kind of sound like a jerk. That "so what's it like to be a virgin?" comment is unacceptable, no two ways about it. And she basically lost interest in him because he was a little cautious and hesitant approaching her physically, which is a minor issue at worst and at least tends to suggest that he respects women and boundaries. So, yeah. Dude is better off this way, and she should probably reappraise the way she treats the people she's dating.

By: prize bull octorok

prize bull octorok — Mon, 04 Aug 2014 15:08:26 -0800

Well personally I'm just glad she's writing to entertain rather than to win the approval of armchair dating quarterbacks, cause I thought her blog was hella funny.

By: Joe in Australia

Joe in Australia — Mon, 04 Aug 2014 20:25:16 -0800

ClownDating.com, for instance, is a singles community for professional clowns, aspirational clowns, or people who just find clowns sexy. I think it's great that they can have a normal life, and I support them absolutely, but I'm concerned that perverts may take advantage of them.

By: Tell Me No Lies

Tell Me No Lies — Mon, 04 Aug 2014 22:36:46 -0800

I'm surprised anyone would be inclined to feel sorry for a guy that didn't have the fortitude to communicate like an adult. What can I say? Compassion for all living things is a harsh mistress.

By: Ephelump Jockey

Ephelump Jockey — Tue, 05 Aug 2014 00:07:31 -0800

"What can I say? Compassion for all living things is a harsh mistress." Well played.

By: klangklangston

klangklangston — Tue, 05 Aug 2014 12:53:55 -0800

This was pretty fucking hilarious, honestly. And hey, sometimes dating just doesn't work out even if the other person is a rocket scientist. Y'all are sure you're picking up "sneering contempt" and not just disappointment about the narrative not resolving with them together?

By: Ephelump Jockey

Ephelump Jockey — Tue, 05 Aug 2014 14:03:48 -0800

klangklangston: How far into the blog did you read? Unfortunately, having had more time today to dig deeper, I have to say she's pretty mean. Granted, she'll zero in on shitty behavior from whichever guy she's riffing on, but her tone can get pretty cruel in response to that shitty behavior. Seems like she's got a chip on her shoulder the deeper I go. For instance, one of the guys that she went out with saw her blog, and when they were on the date he picked her up in a car. Thing is, to her knowledge, he didn't have one. So she asked where the car came from, and before he told her he wanted assurance that she wouldn't post it on the blog. She hemmed and hawed on that assurance, and when she found out the car belonged to the guy's mom, she posted it anyway. Denigrating someone like that after they've specifically asked you not to is fucking mean no matter what. Dating may be difficult, but bitterness and cruelty are uncalled for if you want any success. And yeah, she kind of drew frowny faces on fruit and put it on another guy's car. That's... umm... not good.

By: klangklangston

klangklangston — Tue, 05 Aug 2014 15:37:24 -0800

"So she asked where the car came from, and before he told her he wanted assurance that she wouldn't post it on the blog. She hemmed and hawed on that assurance, and when she found out the car belonged to the guy's mom, she posted it anyway. Denigrating someone like that after they've specifically asked you not to is fucking mean no matter what." Here's what she actually wrote:

As we're driving I notice his GPS is speaking in Hebrew and he swears it's like that all of the time but I'm wondering if it really is or if he's just trying to impress me. I already think you're smart, so you don't have to keep trying to prove yourself to me. But if you really do listen to your GPS in Hebrew all of the time, I'm even more impressed. Then I ask him "so who did you steal the car from?" He says, "I'll tell you, but we need some confidentiality. You need to promise this isn't going in your blog." I promise him that I won't put it in my blog unless it's really funny. "It's not funny," he tells me. "It's my mom's car." Really? You don't think that's funny? I'm sorry, but that's hilarious, so here it is, in my blog. (Plus, again, very little chance of a second date, so really, what's the harm in telling the world?) "That's cute." I respond. "Really?" He asks. "Yeah. I feel like I'm in high school. Are you going to take me to the mall for ice cream afterwards?" I ask because I'm a douche that likes to ruin perfectly nice dates with great guys.

So she doesn't "hem and haw," she says she won't say unless it's funny. And it kind of is. But most of that entry she spends excoriating herself for being a douche to the guy she's on a date with despite really liking him. She's awkward and fucks it up and that's a lot of what makes it funny, because most of us have liked someone then fucked it up by being weird/douchey/dumb/whatever. She has a chip on her shoulder about her own shitty behavior.

By: Ephelump Jockey

Ephelump Jockey — Tue, 05 Aug 2014 17:59:10 -0800

All right. I misremembered the exchange. But still, it's kind of thoughtless to do something so directly against someone's wishes. She's also pretty cavalier about posting texts and facebook messages which were I the recipient would certainly squig me out. Sure, some of them are from friends, but some of them are from dudes she went on dates with. For obvious logistical reasons, I don't know if she's taken any precautions to blank out identifying info. If she has, it would still bother me, but in a more nebulous "you just shouldn't do that" kind of way. I guess I was just trying to square my conflicted feelings about the blog, because my initial reaction was gut busting laughter followed by an ineffable unease. Anyway, I don't want to pick this apart any further than we already have. I have more dogs than most in this particular race.