Comments on: Aboriginal leader asks court to spear policeman to death.

Aboriginal leader asks court to spear policeman to death.

holloway — Sun, 27 Jan 2002 21:58:58 -0800

Aboriginal leader asks court to spear policeman to death. Ahahah ahah hah ah ahh HAHAHAA (more inside)

By: holloway

holloway — Sun, 27 Jan 2002 22:02:51 -0800

HAHAHA HHAAAA HAHA HAHahah ha ha ha ha ahha ahah ahah ahhahh haha aha haha hah aha hah ahh AHAH HA HAH AHAH AH AH AH HAHAA AHAHA AHAA AHA aha aha aha oh aha haa ha ha a AHAH AH AH AH AH HHA AAH AH HHAHAH AH AHahAH AH AH HAAHAHAHA AH AHAAHAHA AAHAHA AHAHAAHHA AHAAHAHAAA A AHSAHAHAHAH AH HAA HAH A HAHHHAAAHAA AHAH AHAAaa hahahah ahahaaaa ahhahahah hahaha *wipes-tear*

By: mkn

mkn — Sun, 27 Jan 2002 22:04:28 -0800

That's a bit uncalled for.

By: dai

dai — Sun, 27 Jan 2002 22:08:22 -0800

Rather easily amused?

By: malphigian

malphigian — Sun, 27 Jan 2002 22:11:57 -0800

Are we laughing at the wacky natives? Holloway, this maybe is funnier to you because you're from NZ and a little more up on the Austrailian/Aborigine politics? Maybe you could explain for those of us who don't get it?

By: jonmc

jonmc — Sun, 27 Jan 2002 22:13:08 -0800

oh dear, someone put a wee-wee pad under holloway, please. As for the case, just have the judge sacrifice a virgin and be done with it.

By: holloway

holloway — Sun, 27 Jan 2002 22:17:37 -0800

jonmc: you wet yourself when you laugh?

By: techgnollogic

techgnollogic — Sun, 27 Jan 2002 22:19:20 -0800

no, he pees on you. :)

By: jonmc

jonmc — Sun, 27 Jan 2002 22:24:49 -0800

technologic-lets not get kinky here...

By: Catch

Catch — Sun, 27 Jan 2002 22:25:54 -0800

no, he pees on you. :) Oh, dear God.

By: Optamystic

Optamystic — Sun, 27 Jan 2002 22:27:06 -0800

Sounds like some asshole cop was getting his kicks out of hassling the natives. The natives are pissed, and want him punished under their law, since the "crime" occurred on what they perceive to be their land. I fail to see the hilarity.

By: Catch

Catch — Sun, 27 Jan 2002 22:37:18 -0800

Sounds like a policeman put out an illegal fire on Gov't property and "the natives" want to 'cook um, eat um'. But way to rock the establishment, Optamystic.

By: Optamystic

Optamystic — Sun, 27 Jan 2002 22:41:49 -0800

Tips hat. All in a day's work, Catch.

By: ashbury

ashbury — Sun, 27 Jan 2002 22:45:28 -0800

What's wrong with you guys? Have a little respect for other people's customs. Yes, it's a ridiculous idea, but the principle is a sound one. Grow up and get a little empathy.

By: sennoma

sennoma — Sun, 27 Jan 2002 23:05:28 -0800

MetaTalk (thanks ashbury).

By: Doug

Doug — Sun, 27 Jan 2002 23:27:51 -0800

But Ashbury, this is OUR culture. Please be more understanding toward it.

By: sennoma

sennoma — Sun, 27 Jan 2002 23:37:46 -0800

Doug, "our" is an inclusive term. It's my culture, and ashbury's, and Miguel's (see MeTa thread) as much as it is yours or holloway's. As has been pointed out many times, we each have the same stake in the kind of place that Metafilter will be. I do not want the Metafilter "culture" to be such that issues of land rights and human dignity are greeted with sophomoric laughter and crude jokes.

By: Doug

Doug — Sun, 27 Jan 2002 23:47:03 -0800

Sennoma: I agree that the land rights issue is important, and shouldn't be ignored. That's the problem I have with this thread...I bet most people making jokes haven't read the article. So they're making jokes about a group of people who want to execute someone with spears because they only read the headline. That does suck, cause there is a bit more to the story. But I'm sorry, you aren't going to convince me that I should take the spear comment seriously. I don't care if they aren't from my culture...they're sick. Just like I think those for the death penalty in America are sick. It's a rodoculous idea that I should have respect for someones custom of killing another human being with a sharp stick.

By: MiguelCardoso

MiguelCardoso — Sun, 27 Jan 2002 23:47:53 -0800

Here's a video with Darren Bloomfield, the activist in question, and a brief description of the Aboriginal Tent Embassy(Req.Real). I think it would be great if this thread could be salvaged and turned into an intelligent discussion, as there are so many interesting issues involved. Specially as the great majority of MeFis belong to countries with native populations and a spirited tradition of debate on their rights.

By: MiguelCardoso

MiguelCardoso — Sun, 27 Jan 2002 23:48:40 -0800

I mean here(please scroll down a bit), dammit.

By: MiguelCardoso

MiguelCardoso — Mon, 28 Jan 2002 00:06:07 -0800

I don't care if they aren't from my culture...they're sick. I agree. Relativism goes against basic morality. How could you be against the death penalty in the U.S. and say "But it's OK for the natives". It has little to do with history, either."You shalt not kill" is a pretty ancient moral precept, no? I think guilt plays a very large part in the sensitivity to aboriginal claims. Australians(and Americans)still feel guilty about the expropriation and murder of their native populations and activists such as Bloomfield have craftily learnt how to exploit that sensitivity. Note how Bloomfield relishes the High Court and causing it problems : "I look to it every day for inspiration"...

By: sennoma

sennoma — Mon, 28 Jan 2002 00:07:30 -0800

I'm sorry, you aren't going to convince me that I should take the spear comment seriously Doug, fair enough, I think that goes well beyond reasonable too. (Disclosure: I find the idea of state-sanctioned killing, aka the death penalty, abhorrent.) I was reacting to the sophomoric laughter above. As I said in MeTa, my feeling is that Bloomfield is pushing boundaries here, as many activists do, hoping to be met somewhere in the middle where a reasonable legal and practical compromise can be worked out. I could be wrong, though, and he might really be calling for a death penalty (which, as I understand it, some systems of Aboriginal law do provide for). If that's so, then I disagree with him as vehemently as I disagree with any proponent of any death penalty. I do think that the allegation about the attempted hit-and-run by the police officer should be taken seriously, and Miguel's link (thanks M) seems to indicate that it is.

By: j.edwards

j.edwards — Mon, 28 Jan 2002 00:09:51 -0800

The INFOKOORI database links to Koori Mail, "Australia's National Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Newspaper", which has some good resources. Also the Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Commission.

By: victors

victors — Mon, 28 Jan 2002 00:12:08 -0800

I have to say... isn't it unbelievably insensitive for a man, a supposed leader and spiritual spokesman, in the 21st century to assume it's ok call for the barbaric death of another man because he violated a spritual ceremony? Empathy? Sounds more like boomer guilt talking (which god knows I am guilty of more often than not).

By: MiguelCardoso

MiguelCardoso — Mon, 28 Jan 2002 00:25:18 -0800

[Here's a more complete version of the story from the Sydney Morning Herald].

By: sennoma

sennoma — Mon, 28 Jan 2002 00:28:50 -0800

Sounds more like boomer guilt talking *pleads, er, guilty* Well, a little. If it hadn't been for holloway's egregiously stupid FPP, we'd have got to this part of the discussion faster. As I said above, I would disagree with any call for a death penalty.

By: victors

victors — Mon, 28 Jan 2002 00:41:28 -0800

egregiously stupid FPP um, ok, while we're confessing... so the real theme of this thread is: judging people is wrong the world over. OR people are stupid the world over OR people ridicule/fear things they don't understand the world over OR we all need to get a life OR then you die

By: MiguelCardoso

MiguelCardoso — Mon, 28 Jan 2002 01:29:18 -0800

Sounds more like boomer guilt talking For a really hilarious example of false sensitivity, this extract from a wedding ceremony, conducted by a white Australian official outside the Aboriginal Embassy Tent in question, has to be unbeatable. It sounds laboured and insincere , like so much well-meaning, guilt-ridden advocacy for aboriginal rights.[via pelp]

By: sennoma

sennoma — Mon, 28 Jan 2002 01:52:00 -0800

Miguel, I don't see the hilarity here either. The people being married are Aboriginal, and the official was asked to perform part of the ceremony in language. From the article: Over the 27 years that Arthur and Rose have been together, the Tent Embassy has come to be of great significance as they've marched, protested and gathered peacefully with people who've shared their beliefs. Now they wished to show their respect for the site and pride in their heritage as Ngiyampaa people. It's entirely likely that neither Arthur nor Rose speak their own language, as earlier gummint policies did a lot of damage to Aboriginal languages, so they asked a friend to conduct the ceremony. (Regarding that friend, you cannot tell if someone is Aboriginal by looking; it's a concept that involves more than skin colour. In any case, I don't see what the friend's colour/ethnicity has to do with anything; she's just a friend of the family who happens to speak that language.) I didn't even think the ceremony was all that laboured; sure, it seems to have lost something in the translation, but I'm sure you are familiar with that phenomenon. There certainly is much "well-meaning, guilt-ridden advocacy for aboriginal rights" about, but this does not look remotely similar to me. It's just, you know---someone's wedding. No big deal.

By: dong_resin

dong_resin — Mon, 28 Jan 2002 05:22:46 -0800

For the record, I am all for spearing policemen to death.

By: pracowity

pracowity — Mon, 28 Jan 2002 05:42:28 -0800

> I am all for spearing policemen to death. How barbaric! It's much nicer to poison or shoot or electrocute them.

By: stavrosthewonderchicken

stavrosthewonderchicken — Mon, 28 Jan 2002 05:50:50 -0800

For the record, I am all for spearing policemen to death. And I am all for laughing uproariously while the policeman-spearing occurs. Not, and I want to make this perfectly clear, at the people doing the spearing, regardless of their racial background and/or socio-economic status. Unless those people are really funny for some reason unrelated to the aforementioned racial background and/or socio-economic status. Then laughing at them is probably okay too.

By: victors

victors — Mon, 28 Jan 2002 06:32:58 -0800

For a really hilarious example of false sensitivity Hey I never said any of this thread was funny but not because it's not possible to make light of the situation. But whatever, I'm sorry: I meant humourless self-righteous boomer guilt in denial.

By: Quixoticlife

Quixoticlife — Mon, 28 Jan 2002 06:50:11 -0800

hWah--hwah--hwah...
((shakes head))

By: karaleah

karaleah — Mon, 28 Jan 2002 10:13:52 -0800

It all started out with a beach umbrella...

By: lizs

lizs — Mon, 28 Jan 2002 14:19:54 -0800

How could you be against the death penalty in the U.S. and say "But it's OK for the natives". There was a Christoher Hitchens article in the December Atlantic Monthly that posited that the tendencies of the [very very] Left to denounce and support the same actions by different parties basically boiled down to the following: "Nothing will make us fight against an evil if that fight forces us to go to the same corner as our own government." I think there's a little of that element here. What if the perpetrator had been a kid instead of a cop?

By: lucien

lucien — Mon, 28 Jan 2002 17:29:08 -0800

These weren't literal remarks by any means. It was statement made with the intention of throwing light on the past and current situation of Aboriginal land rights. They were made to draw attention to the fact that the aborigines were dispossessed, murdered, and had their lands taken away from them and are still trying to seek some reparation for past wrongs. They were saying "how would you like it if it was your land that had been taken away and your people killed" by making reference to what happened to them. This has nothing to do with the death penalty, or discussions thereof. It's a political statement designed to make people think and to grab a few sounds bites. Although at the rate at which the original story was truncated and plastered on the "what's weird" news links I suppose it has been misinterpreted as much as it has been understood.

By: MiguelCardoso

MiguelCardoso — Tue, 29 Jan 2002 08:16:45 -0800

Fame at last, Holloway, Catch and fellow posters! This thread has just been linked by pelp, which is only the most linkalicious web site in the world. So all was not lost, after all. ;)

By: MiguelCardoso

MiguelCardoso — Tue, 29 Jan 2002 08:46:32 -0800

[Sorry. Scroll down to find link, enjoying the links along the way and below. (Good thing we kept the rough stuff over at that other place. Everybody smile and whistle...)]