Comments on: "brilliant, sardonic, and contemptuous of most of mankind"

"brilliant, sardonic, and contemptuous of most of mankind"

Atom Eyes — Tue, 09 Sep 2014 23:56:36 -0800

Fay started with gimmicks like everyone else, wearing baggy pants, squirting seltzer, delivering straight lines for a comedian that circled him on roller skates - and he hated it. After humiliating himself onstage for two years, Fay decided to use the same persona he had offstage. No props, no costumes, no partner, he took to the stage wearing a well-tailored tuxedo and told jokes alone. It was so unconventional that The New York Times frowned: ""Fay needs a good straight man, as before, to feed his eccentric comedy." There was initial resistance to a man just standing and talking, but Fay's success would transform stand-up as an artform. Fellow comedians saw Fay succeed and they abandoned their props and emulated his style. Jack Benny, Milton Berle, Bob Hope and Jack Paar all cited him as an influence. Fay became one of the most influential stand-up comics of all time.

He was also comedy's most notorious racist. In January 1946, several months after Germany had been defeated, a rally of ten thousand white supremacists gathered at Madison Square Garden. They delivered speeches in support of Franco, Mussolini and their fallen hero Adolf Hitler. They promised that the defeat of Germany would not go unpunished. The podium was beneath a banner that saluted their guest of honor. The event was called "The Friends of Frank Fay."

Frank Fay: The Fascist Stand-Up Comic by Kliph Nesteroff (for WFMU's Beware of the Blog)

Fay performing a bit with Sid Silvers in a clip from the 1929 film The Show of Shows.

By: silby

silby — Wed, 10 Sep 2014 01:26:28 -0800

Never heard of this guy before, a testament to the effectiveness of his apparently well-deserved censure. I'm comfortable leaving Jack Benny, Bob Hope, and Milton Berle in pride of place in comedy's history, and consigning this unrepentant bigot to the sorry history of American fascism.

By: GallonOfAlan

GallonOfAlan — Wed, 10 Sep 2014 01:45:13 -0800

Oy Fay!

By: potsmokinghippieoverlord

potsmokinghippieoverlord — Wed, 10 Sep 2014 02:36:03 -0800

From the article:

People were resistant to hire him in Hollywood now that his anti-Semitism was famous. "In a business known for its lack of bigotry, he was a bigot," said comedy writer Milt Josefsberg. "This was no secret, but widely known and well substantiated." Fay married the struggling actress Barbara Stanwyck in 1928, before she found stardom. When she became famous, a joke about Fay made the rounds: Q: Which Hollywood actor has the biggest prick? A: Barbara Stanwyck.

Heh.

By: potsmokinghippieoverlord

potsmokinghippieoverlord — Wed, 10 Sep 2014 02:46:54 -0800

From the Wikipedia article on Barbara Stanwyck:

Fay's successful career on Broadway did not translate to the big screen, whereas Stanwyck achieved Hollywood stardom. Fay engaged in physical confrontations with his young wife, especially when he was inebriated.[36][37] Some claim that this union was the basis for A Star Is Born.[38]

Well, as if I didn't have enough reasons to give Norman Maine the side eye....

By: On the Corner

On the Corner — Wed, 10 Sep 2014 03:33:19 -0800

Fascinating post, Atom Eyes -- many thanks.

By: devious truculent and unreliable

devious truculent and unreliable — Wed, 10 Sep 2014 04:01:12 -0800

I'm comfortable ... consigning this unrepentant bigot to the sorry history of American fascism. It does feels good, but I'm not sure its too healthy to do that. Those who don't know their history, etc Great Post.

By: AlonzoMosleyFBI

AlonzoMosleyFBI — Wed, 10 Sep 2014 04:21:00 -0800

Yes, awesome post. I had never heard of this guy before. When I first saw the name what came to mind was Frankie Fane, who was the main character in the notorious 1966 flop "The Oscar" about an actor willing to step over everyone to get to stardom. As I recall, the character wasn't necessarily racist, but he was an unrepentant asshole.

By: pracowity

pracowity — Wed, 10 Sep 2014 04:44:57 -0800

Those who don't know their history, etc Unfortunately, those who do know their history also, etc. But I agree that it's not good to forget. Here [pdf] are some of those "Friends of Frank Fay" at that rally.

By: rory

rory — Wed, 10 Sep 2014 05:29:00 -0800

I'm comfortable leaving Jack Benny, Bob Hope, and Milton Berle in pride of place in comedy's history, and consigning this unrepentant bigot to the sorry history of American fascism. You know who else liked to edit people out of history... (Sorry, wrong dictator. In Soviet Russia, history edits you!) Sure, he seems to have been a thoroughly objectionable man, but imagine if stand-ups were still all seltzer and baggy pants. At least his comedic innovations were what got carried forward, rather than his bigoted views.

By: kewb

kewb — Wed, 10 Sep 2014 05:35:17 -0800

At least his comedic innovations were what got carried forward, rather than his bigoted views. So he's the Leni Riefenstahl of the stand-up set?

By: mediareport

mediareport — Wed, 10 Sep 2014 05:52:12 -0800

That so many American fascists were flagrantly holding a rally just six months after the end of the War was bold. That's not bold; it's fucking mind-boggling, is what it is. What a strange story. I'd never heard of Frank Fay before, but now I want to Know Everything.Thanks, Atom Eyes (and Kliph Nesteroff).

By: JanetLand

JanetLand — Wed, 10 Sep 2014 06:02:11 -0800

Stanwyck was introduced to Fay by Oscar Levant. Nice irony.

By: mediareport

mediareport — Wed, 10 Sep 2014 06:15:27 -0800

Worth pointing out that Nesteroff's most recent WFMU blog post is "a composite of deleted sections from the forthcoming Grove Atlantic release Drunks, Thieves and Scoundrels: American Comedians 1915-2015." His other posts read like previews of what looks to be a fascinating book. Hope he finishes it soon.

By: strangely stunted trees

strangely stunted trees — Wed, 10 Sep 2014 06:16:44 -0800

Here [pdf] are some of those "Friends of Frank Fay" at that rally. Huh:

In Box 3 (front row) at the Fay rally are (left to right): John Henihan, Bronx Christian Front leader; Virginia Curran and Edward Lodge Curran, long known as the East Coast leader of the Coughlinite movement. (On May 1, 1944, Curran proclaimed his own revival of the "Social Justice" movement.)

By: empath

empath — Wed, 10 Sep 2014 07:05:19 -0800

How do you write an article about a standup and not include a single joke?

By: pracowity

pracowity — Wed, 10 Sep 2014 07:08:56 -0800

I'd never heard of Frank Fay before, but now I want to Know Everything. Here's an obituary from when he died, supposedly at age 62, but Walter Winchell said Fay was (according to sources) "closer to 74." Charlie and Bryan Foy (not Fay) said Fay (not Foy) never got over Stanwyck.

By: octobersurprise

octobersurprise — Wed, 10 Sep 2014 07:12:45 -0800

Here [pdf] are some of those "Friends of Frank Fay" at that rally. Hamilton Fish was there. Scion of America's oldest (?) political dynasty, Fish was (among other things) a (white) officer of the AEF's first African-American regiment, the 369th Infantry, aka the Harlem Hellfighters. After the war, Representative Fish introduced legislation to erect the Tomb of the Unknown Soldier. But he hated Roosevelt (and communism) so much that he got in bed with Germany. Very enemy of my enemy. Plus ça change ... He lived to be 102. More interesting, is that Fish's grandson, Hamilton Fish is that Hamilton Fish, the ex-publisher of The Nation and ex-President of The Nation Institute, current publisher of The Washington Spectator, and the producer of several of Marcel Ophüls' films notably The Memory of Justice and Hôtel Terminus. (I seem to recall Fish having some (peripheral) connection to the NY smart set of Warhol's day also but he doesn't make the journals. I looked.) Fish the Younger's got another 40 years beat his granddad.

By: Herodios

Herodios — Wed, 10 Sep 2014 07:13:09 -0800

How do you write an article about a standup and not include a single joke? Here's one: "The last time I saw Frank Fay he was walking down lover's lane holding his own hand." --Fred Allen And:

As late as the 1950s, one of his most enduring routines was taking a popular song and analysing the "senseless" lyrics, for example "Tea for Two":
Picture you, upon my knee -- [This guy just owns one chair?] Just tea for two and two for tea --[So, here's the situation: the guy just has one chair, but enough tea for two, so he has two for tea. If anyone else shows up, he shoots 'em!] Nobody near us, to see us or hear us -- [Who'd want to listen to a couple of people drinking tea?] We won't have it known dear that we own a telephone -- [So, this guy's too cheap to get another chair, he has a telephone, but won't tell anyone about it!]
-- WP

I definitely heard this bit once upon a time. My childhood memories associated it with Spike Jones and Ernie Kovacs. There's also the Old Professor's analysis of Mary Had A Little Lamb: "It's in the book!" And of course, Steve Allen picked up on the idea and employed it in the service of ridiculing rock - n - roll music, reading song lyrics out of context.

By: Herodios

Herodios — Wed, 10 Sep 2014 07:23:26 -0800

Correction: "It's in the book!"* was Johnny Standley. The Old Philosopher, on the other hand, is best known for the "Is that what's bothering you, Bunky?" routine. Carry on. ---------------------------- * In 1952, the first spoken word record to be a #1 hit.

By: GenjiandProust

GenjiandProust — Wed, 10 Sep 2014 07:47:42 -0800

While many celebrities distanced themselves from Fay, he found a friend in the popular radio commentator Father Charles Coughlin. This is not much of a recommendation for the character of either.

By: ROU_Xenophobe

ROU_Xenophobe — Wed, 10 Sep 2014 07:51:20 -0800

He was also comedy's most notorious racist. He wasn't racist exactly, except against wasps, but surely we can't talk about this issue without bringing up Bing Hitler.

By: iviken

iviken — Wed, 10 Sep 2014 08:00:49 -0800

At least his comedic innovations were what got carried forward, rather than his bigoted views. Another innovation: "An early example of the arrogance that was to overshadow his reputation throughout his career occurred at this early stage. In the incident, which became notorious throughout theatrical circles, Fay let the audience wait several minutes while he struggled to tie his tie in the dressing room. "Let 'em wait!" he apparently snapped at the stage manager, establishing a tradition that would not be revived until rock and roll was invented forty years later." Several minutes? Thanks a lot. Btw, you know who else liked to keep his audience waiting? "Just when you thought he couldn't possibly wait any longer, he waited longer."

By: GenjiandProust

GenjiandProust — Wed, 10 Sep 2014 08:58:50 -0800

I'm comfortable leaving Jack Benny, Bob Hope, and Milton Berle in pride of place in comedy's history, and consigning this unrepentant bigot to the sorry history of American fascism. I don't really like this approach because it obscures history. I think it's entirely OK to say that this guy, who was a terrible person, had X or Y impact in their field and that later people (who were, perhaps more admirable) built on that impact. Especially when that impact seems to have been driven, at least in part, but some of what makes the guy problematic (in this case his arrogance and self-regard rather than his antisemitism). There are a lot of people with ugly ideas who are still significant figures. History demands that a) we remember their accomplishments and b) never forget what jerks they were.

By: Sticherbeast

Sticherbeast — Wed, 10 Sep 2014 09:12:10 -0800

I don't doubt that his association with fascism, racism, and anti-Semitism killed his career even postmortem. That said, it's harder to be remembered than it is to be forgotten: most celebrities fade into the mists regardless.

By: koeselitz

koeselitz — Wed, 10 Sep 2014 09:16:06 -0800

empath: “How do you write an article about a standup and not include a single joke?” There are like a dozen jokes in this article.

By: GenjiandProust

GenjiandProust — Wed, 10 Sep 2014 09:29:11 -0800

There are like a dozen jokes in this article. Take my fascist dictator, please. No, really, please. Take him.

By: empath

empath — Wed, 10 Sep 2014 09:32:17 -0800

There are like a dozen jokes in this article. From Fay? I counted one insult directed at Milton Berle, and I'm not even sure that joke was original with him.

By: empath

empath — Wed, 10 Sep 2014 09:34:57 -0800

Here's a clip of him performing in 1929.

By: koeselitz

koeselitz — Wed, 10 Sep 2014 09:37:56 -0800

Yeah, I guess I see what you mean – it would be kind of nice to see what his material was like.

By: Atom Eyes

Atom Eyes — Wed, 10 Sep 2014 09:46:22 -0800

From the clips, what strikes me is how similar his cadence is to that of Bob Hope. At times it's almost uncanny.

By: Joey Michaels

Joey Michaels — Wed, 10 Sep 2014 10:02:33 -0800

Oh holy cats I'm a dead ringer for this guy. Like he could be my great grandfather. :O

By: ROU_Xenophobe

ROU_Xenophobe — Wed, 10 Sep 2014 10:10:42 -0800

All this talk about fascist comedians and no mention of Bing Hitler? I hate that.

By: Chitownfats

Chitownfats — Wed, 10 Sep 2014 10:13:34 -0800

I remember being dimly aware that the term social justice had its origins in Catholic social teaching, but I didn't realize it was such a catchphrase for Father Coughlin and the Christian Front specifically. Funny how the meaning of things changes. I think it was a deliberate co-opting of a term originally meant to encourage redress for the abuse of laborers. Like all great historical movements, it got a little schitzy - for some, socialism (eek!), communism (horrors!) offered this redress, for others, these were the very concepts causing this abuse. For the latter, anti-communism = pro-fascism = Christian Front, Fr. Coughlin, etc. The former were more the Dorothy Day Catholic Workers Movement (cf. eek, horrors)type. It didn't help that prior to Pearl Harbor most (Irish)Catholics were anti-war (take that,English bastards!).

By: Sticherbeast

Sticherbeast — Wed, 10 Sep 2014 10:28:19 -0800

I think it was a deliberate co-opting of a term originally meant to encourage redress for the abuse of laborers. Father Coughlin certainly saw himself as an advocate for laborers - white laborers, of course. He opposed both Communism and free market capitalism. His virulent anti-Semitism was tightly wound up in his assails against Wall Street capitalism, "money changers", and whatnot. He was like the Negaverse G. K. Chesterton - himself another anti-Semite, albeit a smarter and more charming one.

By: booksandlibretti

booksandlibretti — Wed, 10 Sep 2014 11:13:44 -0800

I strongly disagree that Frank Fay somehow invented stand-up. He wasn't the first guy without "a costume or an instrument or another guy." Check out Eddie Cantor. Here's a talkie from 1923 (four years before The Jazz Singer). He does sing two comic songs (with the orchestra -- not his own instrument). But the rest is exactly the form of modern stand-up. And while this was filmed in 1923, Cantor had already been famous for ~10 years by then. This form wasn't waiting for Fay to invent it. (And by the way, Cantor -- Isidore Iskowitz -- was Jewish.) Bonus: a little dustup between them. Cantor ain't scared.

By: aquanaut

aquanaut — Wed, 10 Sep 2014 11:17:22 -0800

@ empath, thanks for posting that clip. Fascinating that he's dressed as a doughboy but is wearing an Iron Cross, and that he specifically draws attention to it twice. I know it's pre-holocaust, but still. Wow. Also, TiL the 'nazi Laura Ingalls' mentioned in the article is not Laura Ingalls Wilder, but a pioneer aviatrix.

By: Atom Eyes

Atom Eyes — Wed, 10 Sep 2014 11:29:40 -0800

Bonus: a little dustup between them. Cantor ain't scared. That's fascinating, booksandlibretti. Thanks! (N.B. The Fay story starts on p.4 of the PDF doc and then is continued on p.46.)

By: iotic

iotic — Wed, 10 Sep 2014 11:34:22 -0800

I can't believe no one has brought up Bing Hitler yet. Someone should.

By: Herodios

Herodios — Wed, 10 Sep 2014 12:42:30 -0800

surely we can't talk about this issue without bringing up Bing Hitler. All this talk about fascist comedians and no mention of Bing Hitler? I hate that. I can't believe no one has brought up Bing Hitler yet. Someone should. It looks as though you folks have a quorum.

By: Greg Nog

Greg Nog — Wed, 10 Sep 2014 12:46:58 -0800

This is fascinating; I'd never heard of this guy. Thanks so much for posting it!

By: Apocryphon

Apocryphon — Wed, 10 Sep 2014 14:35:13 -0800

Also, TiL the 'nazi Laura Ingalls' mentioned in the article is not Laura Ingalls Wilder, but a pioneer aviatrix. Between that and the fringe theory that Amelia Earhart was Tokyo Rose, how unfortunate for early women's aviation.

By: Wolfdog

Wolfdog — Wed, 10 Sep 2014 14:47:28 -0800

surely we can't talk about this issue without bringing up Bing Hitler. He was literally worse than ... I can't think of anything.

By: InfidelZombie

InfidelZombie — Wed, 10 Sep 2014 14:48:34 -0800

He's the competitor to Google Hitler, right?

By: Atom Eyes

Atom Eyes — Wed, 10 Sep 2014 15:09:00 -0800

No, you're thinking of that other Nazi-sympathizing search engine, Ask Jeeves & Wooster.

By: ROU_Xenophobe

ROU_Xenophobe — Wed, 10 Sep 2014 22:13:53 -0800

Can I just take this moment to apologize for my idiocy?