Comments on: The real mystery is that they had no distinguishing features at all

The real mystery is that they had no distinguishing features at all

acb — Fri, 01 Mar 2019 08:19:31 -0800

The Cagots were a minority in the west of France and north of Spain. They were shunned, hated and persecuted, required to live in segregated areas on the outskirts of villages, restricted to the trades of butcher, carpenter and rope maker, prohibited from working with livestock, touching food in the market, entering churches through the main entrance or intermarrying with non-Cagots. They were not an ethnic or religious minority, speaking the same language and keeping the same religion as their neighbours; their persecution was based on their families being identified as Cagots, a status which was hereditary.

There were no consistent reasons given for why the Cagots were so despised by their neighbours, though accusations of them being the descendants of Cathar heretics or of a fallen guild of carpenters, carriers of diseases such as leprosy, cannibals, thieves or just nonspecifically evil. Their persecution continued until the early 20th century; during the French Revolution, some Cagots managed to destroy birth certificate to conceal their heritage, but to no avail, as the local population preserved the names of Cagot families in rhyming songs.

By: jacquilynne

jacquilynne — Fri, 01 Mar 2019 08:46:26 -0800

I'm surprised I have never heard of this. Sadly, I am not surprised that a whole bunch of people were persecuted for generations for no reason.

By: zakur

zakur — Fri, 01 Mar 2019 08:48:49 -0800

This is fascinating! Thanks for sharing.

By: The Underpants Monster

The Underpants Monster — Fri, 01 Mar 2019 08:50:22 -0800

Crazy! Thanks for posting this!

By: bq

bq — Fri, 01 Mar 2019 08:50:54 -0800

Holy mackerel

By: pracowity

pracowity — Fri, 01 Mar 2019 09:01:58 -0800

restricted to the trades of butcher ... prohibited from working with livestock, touching food in the market I know the whole thing is crazy, but those restrictions don't even seem internally consistent.

By: Bee'sWing

Bee'sWing — Fri, 01 Mar 2019 09:16:04 -0800

Reminds me of the Burakumin in Japan.

By: northernish

northernish — Fri, 01 Mar 2019 09:17:15 -0800

I know the whole thing is crazy, but those restrictions don't even seem internally consistent. My understanding from other reading is that they tended to work more on the slaughtering and tanning side of animal processing rather than a butcher in the sense of someone who sells meat. A lot of cultures, including the modern western ones, draw a line between the dirtier work of slaughter/tanning with its exposure to blood/urine and the cleaner, more respectable work of food preparation.

By: cardboard

cardboard — Fri, 01 Mar 2019 09:32:00 -0800

"Just goes to show... when people want to hate, they can improvise!" - Jimmie Walker

By: w0mbat

w0mbat — Fri, 01 Mar 2019 09:44:53 -0800

I found a good article in the Independent that gives more insight into the story.

By: Anne Neville

Anne Neville — Fri, 01 Mar 2019 09:50:11 -0800

This has some similarities to Dalits in the Indian caste system.

By: w0mbat

w0mbat — Fri, 01 Mar 2019 09:56:05 -0800

This has some similarities to Dalits in the Indian caste system. Yes, I thought that too, but the odd thing is that Dalits are forced into awful dirty jobs, but Butcher and Carpenter have long been desirable respected trades in Europe.

By: Stewriffic

Stewriffic — Fri, 01 Mar 2019 09:58:47 -0800

I saw "North of Spain" and "cagot" and figured this was another weird Catalán poop-related thing. Cagot is a Catalán word that means "a person who shits a lot." But from a quick look on that Wikipedia entry, the cagots here seem to be from farther west? Anyhoo, this is really interesting. Thanks.

By: backseatpilot

backseatpilot — Fri, 01 Mar 2019 10:05:21 -0800

I thought this sounded familiar. The Omnibus podcast had a recent entry about it.

By: gimonca

gimonca — Fri, 01 Mar 2019 10:11:33 -0800

If I remember right, Catholic priests in southwestern France had these special, long wooden paddle-like implements that they'd use to offer the communion host to cagots, so that the priest wouldn't have to get too close to them.

By: es_de_bah

es_de_bah — Fri, 01 Mar 2019 10:31:06 -0800

*A man named Guillaume crosses his arms and snorts.* Zay know what zay did. Honestly this is fascinating and a heart breaking. It makes me think of the poor girl we all called Kerry-Kooties in 2nd grade for no adequately explored reason.

By: TreeRooster

TreeRooster — Fri, 01 Mar 2019 11:12:14 -0800

Every school should teach Shirley Jackson's The Lottery, and then cover some of these examples. The instinct in reading that is to think "nah, couldn't really happen, there's always a reason...which is why I'm glad I'm not in one of those groups." Sorry, reasons can always be manufactured--as easily as pulling a name out of a hat.

By: sukeban

sukeban — Fri, 01 Mar 2019 11:57:53 -0800

There used to be several persecuted minorities in Spain. Aside of the Roma people and cagots/ agotes, there are the Mercheros, a nomadic group of tinkerers. The most famous merchero is Eleuterio Sánchez aka El Lute, who had a biopic made of him.

By: Anchorite_of_Palgrave

Anchorite_of_Palgrave — Fri, 01 Mar 2019 18:42:57 -0800

I'm a bit with uneasy "this discrimination is so weird, there's no reason for it", you know, because it implies other discriminations are natural, understandable if not justifiable. As for job status thats a social,construct: the caddy and the golfer experience the same conditions, as do the butcher, the surgeon and the mortician. If the person working with wood is white and wears a polo shirt they are a contractor, if they wear a tee shirt they are a carpenter, if they are not white, they are a laborer.

By: XMLicious

XMLicious — Fri, 01 Mar 2019 23:56:16 -0800

Let's not omit the Jews of Spain and Portugal

By: sukeban

sukeban — Sat, 02 Mar 2019 06:27:35 -0800

The Xuetes in Majorca were a defined ethnic group that survived the expulsion of the Jews, but then there were also the moriscos, whose descendants might be related to mercheros, pasiegos and maragatos (If you scroll down this link it gives an English language summary of a book about these ethnic groups).

By: Morpeth

Morpeth — Sat, 02 Mar 2019 09:07:39 -0800

This is also somewhat reminiscent of the history and treatment of Irish Travellers.

By: jamjam

jamjam — Sat, 02 Mar 2019 10:13:14 -0800

Things like this make me think human hierarchical social systems need a defined and despised bottom as much or more than they need a top. And they give the lie to claims that hierarchies are a reflection of family structures -- I mean, there are families with defined scapegoats, probably as a result of this need for some group to blame everything on in human societies, but those are sick families.

By: Preserver

Preserver — Sat, 02 Mar 2019 13:40:18 -0800

If Cagots/descendants are willing to participate, this might be an interesting avenue for DNA research.

By: homunculus

homunculus — Mon, 11 Mar 2019 20:50:56 -0800

They were not an ethnic or religious minority Huh. I thought they were Basque. Thanks for the post, acb.