Comments on: From the jawdropping-stupidity-in-advertising dept:

From the jawdropping-stupidity-in-advertising dept:

blueshammer — Fri, 06 Sep 2002 09:43:42 -0800

From the jawdropping-stupidity-in-advertising dept: Target recently pulled its "eight eight" line of clothing upon learning of its neo-Nazi undertones. At the same time, British sneaker pimp Umbro got spanked for naming a new line of kicks "Zyklons" — which may seem like a meaningless Decepticon-esque fake word unless you happen to remember that the Nazis used Zyklon B (hydrocyanic acid) in their death chambers. But, OK, still, some marketing twerp that doesn't know his world history, working for Umbro — fine. Pull the sneakers, no harm, no foul.

But Umbro is not the only manufacturer trying to get some play out of the Zyklon name. Turns out that Siemens — a German manufacturer — wanted to have a new, Zyklon-branded line of appliances. Among the to-be-branded Zyklon products?

Gas ovens.

By: Danelope

Danelope — Fri, 06 Sep 2002 09:46:44 -0800

"zyklon"

By: blueshammer

blueshammer — Fri, 06 Sep 2002 09:46:51 -0800

I don't really know what discussion this could possibly generate, other than a series of verbal canings, so maybe our best action can be as a prescient watchdog for companies that might be trying to expand their product lines. For instance: If Procter + Gamble want to develop a new laundry detergent that reduces static cling in the drying cycle, Apart Tide is a bad name. Also, if Tommy Hilfiger wants to produce a line of lower-cost, lower-quality clothes, the slogan should not be "For all the niggards out there."

By: Stan Chin

Stan Chin — Fri, 06 Sep 2002 09:47:29 -0800

Whoah! Double double post! Sorry. (But impressive.)

By: Stan Chin

Stan Chin — Fri, 06 Sep 2002 09:48:40 -0800

Whoops, just realized you linked the first one. Well, not as impressive then.

By: vbfg

vbfg — Fri, 06 Sep 2002 09:53:45 -0800

Double posts with an 'Apart Tide' gag are always worth it.

By: pjgulliver

pjgulliver — Fri, 06 Sep 2002 09:54:58 -0800

Blues...priceless

By: zekinskia

zekinskia — Fri, 06 Sep 2002 10:05:40 -0800

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the word Zyklon means Cyclone in German, right? The American slang "Nuke" is derived from nuclear weapons. For anyone from Japan, I think the word "Nuke" would have some pretty sick implications. (Incidentally, I think people from the US should be disgusted too, but they don't seem to be.) So how many things in America have you seen named "Nuke" this or "Nuke" that? How many little video games, toy guns, shorts, t-shirts, etc. have the word "Nuke" in them? I say get over i

By: alumshubby

alumshubby — Fri, 06 Sep 2002 10:06:46 -0800

I wonder if Zyklon's slogan is "Arbeit macht frei."

By: donkeyschlong

donkeyschlong — Fri, 06 Sep 2002 10:18:16 -0800

If what zekinskia says is true, then this umbrage is pure bullshit.

By: buz46

buz46 — Fri, 06 Sep 2002 10:24:22 -0800

For some reason poison gas seems more insidious than dropping a "nuke" to illicit surrender. After all, the US was never tried for war crimes as a result of Hiroshima/Nagasaki. The Nazis, however, were held accountable for their genocidal shenanigans. I am not trying to justify/rationalize our (US) actions during WW2; however, you can walk down the street in Tokyo wearing the Stars and Stripes, but I wouldn't recommend strolling through Jerusalem sporting a Swastika.

By: statusquo

statusquo — Fri, 06 Sep 2002 10:36:47 -0800

buz46: The US won...

By: dhoyt

dhoyt — Fri, 06 Sep 2002 10:58:56 -0800

After all, the US was never tried for war crimes as a result of Hiroshima/Nagasaki. The residents of both cities were bombarded with leaflets for days prior to both bombings, warning them of the imminent destruction, and yet many citizens remained out of loyalty to the Emporer and the land. This has been documented by both Eastern and Western historians. Hardly comparable to herding millions of Jews into forced labor camps and killing them slowly over time. And as statusquo says, we won the war and restructured the Japanese constitution. Wearing American iconography in their country is not offensive (and in my experience there, seems to make you quite popular).

By: risenc

risenc — Fri, 06 Sep 2002 10:59:49 -0800

What's amazing is that no country in the world is as sensitive about words as Germany. Heck, Adolf/ph - which is still a common name among German-Americans - is all but banned in Germany. Words like "sonder" (special) still make some people cringe because the "Sonderkommando" were the Jews forced to clean up the bodies and ashes from the gas chambers and crematoria. So how Siemens, which itself isn't completely free of WWII taint, could have thought that no one in that country would mind a product being called "Zyklon" is beyond me (much less that anyone in the marketing dept. would be comfortable bringing up the idea in the first place).

By: robself

robself — Fri, 06 Sep 2002 11:05:23 -0800

As popped into the previous thread, Zyklon is indeed German for Cyclone, and, unless I'm being misled, Siemens, the German company, continues to use the name in Germany. I do believe the above story refers to a plan to extend the Zyklon brand to the US.

By: trigfunctions

trigfunctions — Fri, 06 Sep 2002 11:31:34 -0800

The residents of both cities were bombarded with leaflets for days prior to both bombings, warning them of the imminent destruction dhoyt - I have not heard of the leaflets before. If you can point me to an article about it I'd appreciate it.

By: kablam

kablam — Fri, 06 Sep 2002 11:31:54 -0800

As far as Japan goes, didn't they have the longstanding brand name of "darkie" toothpaste? The one featuring a "minstrel" on the package?

By: Satapher

Satapher — Fri, 06 Sep 2002 11:37:56 -0800

does anyone else see the sporadic boxes in this post?

By: mdn

mdn — Fri, 06 Sep 2002 11:54:45 -0800

For some reason poison gas seems more insidious than dropping a "nuke" to illicit surrender. I don't agree. Personally I'm more frightened of dying in a nuclear blast than in a gas chamber and I think the deaths of the japanese were easily as horrific. There were less of them, and the reason was defensive not offensive (the allies didn't start the war) but on an individual level it was just as bad. That said, I'm not really offended by the use of "nuke" for "microwave". But then I don't much like microwaves either... And I wouldn't be comfortable with it in the name of a product (or the use of mushroom clouds on license plates...) I can't imagine someone naming their kid Adolph though. That would be cruel at this point in history. And I'd probably avoid using zyklon or sonder too, if I spoke german. I'm sure there are other words that don't bring to mind atrocity. Re: the sonderkommando, this book is an account from one of the few survivors of the 'special forces'... truly harrowing but important read, I think.

By: tippiedog

tippiedog — Fri, 06 Sep 2002 11:59:16 -0800

risenc wrote: What's amazing is that no country in the world is as sensitive about words as Germany... It's very true that Germans are sensitive to words that have some sort of connection to the Nazi period, but that fact shouldn't be 'amazing'. Propaganda was so widely used during the Nazi period that directly after the second World War, many Germans felt their entire language was almost to tainted for use (see post-war literary phenomena such as Gruppe 47). That feeling still lingers: the word 'Bevölkerung' has replaced 'Volk' and derivatives; the common noun 'Führer' ('leader') is rarely used, though the verb führen is no problem, etc.

By: mkultra

mkultra — Fri, 06 Sep 2002 12:00:16 -0800

dhoyt- There's an interesting refutation of that claim here. What's more concretely known is that we *did* drop leaflets around Japan *after* we bombed Hiroshima (but presumably before Nagasaki), the text of which can be read here.

By: a3matrix

a3matrix — Fri, 06 Sep 2002 12:00:25 -0800

Guess that word will just have to be banished for eternity. What about banning the word cyclone in all languages then? After all, translating it back to German reveals the evil word. ZYKLON

By: Banky_Edwards

Banky_Edwards — Fri, 06 Sep 2002 12:05:35 -0800

History, particularly the history of language, does not seem to be required for marketing drones. I work at a company that deals with purchasing, which in marketing-speak is now known as "spend." Ok, so not everyone read Victorian porn when they were young, but I couldn't believe a company trying to business in Europe was completely unaware of how that word has been used.

By: dhoyt

dhoyt — Fri, 06 Sep 2002 12:05:56 -0800

dhoyt - I have not heard of the leaflets before. If you can point me to an article about it I'd appreciate it. From Yale.edu From PacificIslandTravel From VetMemorial.com There are some who debate that leaflets were dropped before Hiroshima, but many unheeded leaflets were reportedly received by Japanese civilians before Nagasaki. I mainly learned about this through a former employer on a writing job who paid me to ghost-write his biography about flying P-47s in WWII in the Pacific. He eventually saw some of the leaflets first-hand, and lived in Japan doing occupational duties after the surrender.

By: dhoyt

dhoyt — Fri, 06 Sep 2002 12:13:29 -0800

Oop, sorry mkultra, I hadn't seen your post on Preview. I think we basically said the same thing. (I realize in hindsight that the warnings at Hiroshima are debatable)

By: risenc

risenc — Fri, 06 Sep 2002 12:15:48 -0800

Tippiedog: Hum, looking back on it, that came out all wrong. What I meant to say was not that I'm amazed Germans are so sensitive, but that, given their sensitivity to Holocaust-related words, Siemens would still go and use Zyklon as a product name.

By: mccreath

mccreath — Fri, 06 Sep 2002 13:21:55 -0800

re: German sensitivity and the word Zyklon: The other cases of sensitivity mentioned in this thread (Führer, etc.) were in wide, common use. "Zyklon B" wasn't. And even for those Germans who knew what Zyklon B was and how it was being used, "Zyklon B" is a different thing than "Zyklon". Think about "orange" and "Agent Orange". How many of you say "orange" and immediately think of flaming gas pouring onto the Viet Namese landscape? I think expecting the Germans to purge the word "Zyklon" from their language is a little like expecting the US to purge "orange" from our English.

By: tippiedog

tippiedog — Fri, 06 Sep 2002 13:58:56 -0800

mccreath: I think expecting the Germans to purge the word "Zyklon" from their language is a little like expecting the US to purge "orange" from our English. That's probably a fairly accurate analogy. Banky_Edwards: History, particularly the history of language, does not seem to be required for marketing drones. Amen to that. The director of business development (a saleswoman, basically) at my former employer repeatedly referred to the the customers "drinking the kool-aid" (buying our marketing/sales pitch). I was appalled by her flippant use of this phrase.

By: robself

robself — Fri, 06 Sep 2002 14:10:27 -0800

I'd never heard of 'Drinking the kool-aid' until 3 minutes ago. And 1 minute ago i found out that kool aid themselves are understandably sniffy about it: According to the Kool-Aid FAQ, "It is a popular misconception that 900 followers of cult leader Jim Jones committed suicide by drinking Grape Kool-Aid laced with cyanide at their commune in Jonestown Guyana in the late 1970's. The followers of Jones actually drank cyanide laced Flavor-aid, a cheap imitation of Kool-Aid." Well, well.

By: kindall

kindall — Fri, 06 Sep 2002 14:47:44 -0800

How many of you say "orange" and immediately think of flaming gas pouring onto the Viet Namese landscape? Well, hopefully nobody, because Agent Orange was a herbicide.

By: Wood

Wood — Fri, 06 Sep 2002 16:16:38 -0800

Well, well indeed. Interestingly, the Flavor-aid FAQ makes no mention of their connection to Jonestown. Though, the carpeting question probably hides a pretty gruesome story.

By: risenc

risenc — Fri, 06 Sep 2002 16:35:40 -0800

How many of you say "orange" and immediately think of flaming gas pouring onto the Viet Namese landscape? None, because a) agent orange wan't used to systematically kill millions of people, and b), as we in the US didn't carry out the Holocaust/start WWII, we're not as sensitive to words related back to that period. The Germans are, and Siemens, having profitted from the war, should be. Compare it to a phrase like "picking cotton," which is completely innocuous, probably doesn't bother a good number of people, and yet for a good number of Americans it recalls slavery, pretty directly. Now imagine if, say, Milton Bradley came out with a game called "Picking Cotton." Despite how you personally feel, don't you imagine there'd be an uproar? Hell, a few years ago the Germans found a clump of white elms in a forest that had been planted in the shape of a swatika during the Nazi era, and they cut them all down. They're hardcore, and that's what makes they company's lack of foresight stand out. It's not a question of whether Germans should be or are sensitive; most of them are. So what happened with Siemens?

By: ctartchick

ctartchick — Fri, 06 Sep 2002 17:51:38 -0800

Not that this has anything to do with gas ovens, but "Zyklon" has been around as a brand for other things for some time - it is also the model name for a type of roller coaster manufactured by an Italian firm whose name unfortunately escapes me at the moment. There's been no outcry over that. On the other hand, "Cyclone" has always been a popular name for coasters around the world.

By: kindall

kindall — Fri, 06 Sep 2002 18:16:43 -0800

They have (or used to have, it's been years since I've been there and it could well be gone) a Zyklon roller coaster at the Ohio State Fairgrounds. I thought it was kinda weird that it was named that. "Hey, wasn't that the gas the Nazis used to gas the Jews?" Of course, it's not quite true to say that there has been no outcry over this coaster.

By: slipperywhenwet

slipperywhenwet — Fri, 06 Sep 2002 21:16:09 -0800

a few years ago the Germans found a clump of white elms in a forest that had been planted in the shape of a swatika during the Nazi era, and they cut them all down. Hell. If that's true, what a waste. They should have planted some saplings and/or transplanted a few mature tress into the right spots so the swastika was filled in or obscured.