Comments on: A trans woman joined a sorority. Then her sisters sued...

A trans woman joined a sorority. Then her sisters sued...

kittensofthenight — Tue, 17 Oct 2023 11:51:06 -0800

"Some days it feels like this place isn't safe and is actively aggressive towards me," Ewalt said. "Other times, like Artemis often argues ... we grew up here. We have every right to be here. SLWAPO [CW: Transphobia, Homophobia, Suicide]

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By: Maaik

Maaik — Tue, 17 Oct 2023 12:15:19 -0800

jesus i could feel my heart pounding just a few grafs in. i hate that Artemis went in hoping for a forever home and is being met with death threats. ESPECIALLY in Laramie! My god! being trans in this country has only gotten more terrifying. I went to Pride in Atlanta this weekend and while I had an amazing time, the looming cloud of violence against us was always on my mind

By: jenfullmoon

jenfullmoon — Tue, 17 Oct 2023 12:25:40 -0800

Seconded. I felt so bad when "my sorority would" turned into...not. I'm glad she won in the end, but I wonder about her safety for the rest of her college career after all of this awful shit.

By: maryellenreads

maryellenreads — Tue, 17 Oct 2023 12:28:09 -0800

This hurts my heart. I wish there was a way to let her know that there are a lot of us out here who would welcome her.

By: minervous

minervous — Tue, 17 Oct 2023 12:32:25 -0800

I read this piece over the weekend and it's really well reported. I haven't been able to stop thinking about Artemis and her bravery. One thing I want to note, since the headline implies otherwise: a minority of Artemis' sorority sisters have sued. Which is not to say it's anything less than vile, but they are a minority. The Kappa Kappa Gamma national organization and majority of the UW house supports Artemis, some fiercely and some passively, of course, but that support is being poisoned by a relatively small number of young women and their bigot parents. I take some measure comfort in those numbers, and in the LGBTQIA+ community on campus and off in Laramie that are in community with Artemis.

By: NoxAeternum

NoxAeternum — Tue, 17 Oct 2023 12:43:59 -0800

Which is not to say it's anything less than vile, but they are a minority. They need to learn about one of the lesser known parts of the First Amendment - freedom of association. By being told they're no longer part of the sorority.

By: flamk

flamk — Tue, 17 Oct 2023 12:44:46 -0800

It's amazing the lengths conservatives/bigots will go to sow division and destroy their own communities in order to "save" them from "undesirables". Everywhere and at all times it's the same old story. And the twisted nature of their minds that they constantly project onto others . . . The only perverts in this entire story seem to be those fixated on the genitalia of another student.

By: Spike Glee

Spike Glee — Tue, 17 Oct 2023 12:58:19 -0800

I'm surprised that the national body allowed it. When a Black girl tried joining a White sorority at Alabama, the national organization overrode the house to prevent her membership. (Whereupon the girls promptly went to the press.)

By: JohnnyGunn

JohnnyGunn — Tue, 17 Oct 2023 12:58:19 -0800

This minority of sisters who sued sound a lot like the right wing republicans that threw congress into turmoil by ousting McCarthy and refusing to vote for Scalise. Both are out of step with reality. Here is what was not made clear. I do not know how it works in a sorority voting for new members, but in my fraternity, it only took one or in a rare case two no or blackball votes to not get invited. These 8 sisters who are suing, did they vote yes initially to let Artemis in? Isn't that the time to "speak now or forever hold your peace" so to speak. Once a person is inducted, I do not see how they can be easily removed if they don't violate the terms they agreed to when they were initiated/inducted.

By: outgrown_hobnail

outgrown_hobnail — Tue, 17 Oct 2023 13:00:19 -0800

The title is a bit misleading, because there are "40-some sisters", and there usually has to be near-unanimity among them to admit a new member, yet only seven are suing. So in fact, "the sisters" did not "turn on her", because a very large majority of them would have voted yes in the first place, and only seven of them are suing now. My guess is, it's something closer to "the ghastly parents of seven of the sisters got wind of this and browbeat and/or encouraged their daughters to make a fuss". Personally, I think the whole frat/sorority system should be destroyed, but this article makes you read between the lines to get anything approaching a story that makes sense.

By: supermedusa

supermedusa — Tue, 17 Oct 2023 13:00:56 -0800

WTAF Caitlin Jenner? I mean, I know, but seriously. what a tragic story. Artemis is just trying to live her life, she is not spreading hate or engaging in harassment. getting through college is hard enough already. and let's drop Megyn Kelly down the same terf-hole we put Caitlin Jenner in. ugh.

By: supermedusa

supermedusa — Tue, 17 Oct 2023 13:03:13 -0800

it says in the article that the sisters were required to put their email addresses in when they voted so they all said yes to avoid being rightfully accused of bigotry.

By: Pallas Athena

Pallas Athena — Tue, 17 Oct 2023 13:08:07 -0800

I wondered whether this article would get MeFi'd. I did think the reporting was good, but I wondered if sharing it would be beneficial to Artemis's ultimate goal of just being able to live her life. I wonder what the aftermath of the article has been like for her. Apart from the few 'phobic sorority girls, I thought the middle aged guy whose hobby was going onto campus and harassing LGBTQ students (Artemis in particular) was creepy as hell. The harassment got him banned from campus, and then he sued to come back?? And won??? What the fuck.

By: theora55

theora55 — Tue, 17 Oct 2023 13:12:59 -0800

The guy in the student center promoting hate, Todd Schmidt, is endangering a specific student and all LGBT students and WTF? Jenner is an entitled, corrupt, dishonest GOPer. Thank you for using the term bravery, minervous. What incredible strength this young woman has.

By: JohnnyGunn

JohnnyGunn — Tue, 17 Oct 2023 13:36:10 -0800

it says in the article that the sisters were required to put their email addresses in when they voted so they all said yes to avoid being rightfully accused of bigotry. So put your email address in. It is supposed to be a secret vote? If they voted in person, it would be a roll call vote I assume. Bigots should not be allowed to hide behind a veil of anonymity. So now they made it worse by suing? They did not want to vote using their email address so they wouldn't be called bigoted? They are bigoted. Actually, they are worse than that, but decorum prevents me from saying what I really think. We don't want to be called bigoted so we wait until after she is initiated then we file a lawsuit? Some strange thinking there. There is more to the suing sister's motives than they are saying or than we will likely ever know. It seems to me that these suing sisters joined a sorority that was not consistent with their own values. They are the frauds. They should resign.

By: NoxAeternum

NoxAeternum — Tue, 17 Oct 2023 13:37:00 -0800

Apart from the few 'phobic sorority girls, I thought the middle aged guy whose hobby was going onto campus and harassing LGBTQ students (Artemis in particular) was creepy as hell. The harassment got him banned from campus, and then he sued to come back?? And won??? What the fuck. Welcome to free speech "absolutism", where not allowing bigots to hurl abuse at the marginalized is the first step down the slippery slope to authoritarianism, and where speech is unable to harm. The US is working to turn the First Amendment into a suicide pact.

By: Spike Glee

Spike Glee — Tue, 17 Oct 2023 13:37:39 -0800

By: i used to be someone else

i used to be someone else — Tue, 17 Oct 2023 13:44:05 -0800

bravery incredible strength this comment is not to cast aspersions on anyone in this thread, but more highlight something that happens so very frequently that it almost feels de rigueur when talking about anything trans. i hope one day that being trans does not carry with it the baggage of being inspiration porn and indomitable courage; that the stories that get told about us have less to do with our resiliency in the face of poverty or bigotry and how we persevere, but more the pointless mundanities of life, trivialities like missing the bus or trying to buy a drink only to realize tap to pay doesn't work and without pockets, how does one even carry their payment cards? also, i hope those plaintiffs never have a peaceful moment's of sleep again; may they be cursed with kidney stones and early onset osteoporosis; may their favorite foods taste like ass and their favorite clothes turn to ash.

By: NoxAeternum

NoxAeternum — Tue, 17 Oct 2023 13:56:40 -0800

The First Amendment allows a wide variety of behavior. As long as the dude's not physically assaulting people, there's little that they can do. When my kid was in school, they'd have people come on school and start calling girls names for wearing short skirts (anything shorter than ankle length) or pants, and there was little that the school could do. Why yes, that would be the fucking problem, and it's because we've been sold a bill of goods on speech with the idea that if we silence the bigot we'll open the door to authoritarianism while pointedly ignoring how the speech of the marginalized winds up being chilled. Thus we wind up in a place where words are privileged above people, the marginalized are forced to choose between safety and a place in society, and those who will never be on the receiving end nod sagely and call it "freedom". As you can tell, I am rather done with this.

By: Flight Hardware, do not touch

Flight Hardware, do not touch — Tue, 17 Oct 2023 14:14:31 -0800

The misgendering in the court documents brings back memories for me of my custody battle after I came out as trans. It was a very expensive and protracted custody battle. My ex objected to my legal, new name being used on the case. I pointed out that the exact same court had in fact granted me the new name. As a result, the compromise that was reached was for both defendant and plaintiff to be listed by initials (which didn't change in my case). Proper pronouns were used for me in the documents I saw, but in mediation, I was warned that private discussions pretty much exclusively used the wrong pronouns. In the end, concerns about potential psychological damage to my children resulted in a settlement that took away most of my physical custody rights. Do not assume this was in a red state, or long ago. It was New Jersey, in 2017.

By: queensissy

queensissy — Tue, 17 Oct 2023 14:37:34 -0800

Thank you for the content warnings - everybody please take heed to those, and take care of yourselves. That was an incredibly difficult read. Made me cry more than once and I still feel sick to my stomach. I'm trying to grasp on to the glimmers of hope in the story (the supportive sisters, the 84-year-old judge) but damn. Also, there are exclusions to the First Amendment - don't Schmidt's words and actions count as clear and present danger of imminent harm?

By: GenjiandProust

GenjiandProust — Tue, 17 Oct 2023 14:51:10 -0800

Also, there are exclusions to the First Amendment - don't Schmidt's words and actions count as clear and present danger of imminent harm? Most of the universities I have worked at have specific zones where people can register to spout whatever they like. The downside is that these assholes can be on campus; the upside is that there are only a few places they can be. Joe Streetpreacher cannot go into a classroom or the library and start preaching without being removed by security. I am not sure if state law plays into this at all (one of the states I worked in was Texas, so...).

By: GenjiandProust

GenjiandProust — Tue, 17 Oct 2023 14:58:52 -0800

He would later say that his sign on Dec. 2 was inspired by a Bible verse from Genesis and "not designed to target Artemis Langford personally." Excuse me, sir, your offensive banner with Ms. Langford's name on it was not meant to attack her personally? Do you know waht words mean?

By: tigrrrlily

tigrrrlily — Tue, 17 Oct 2023 16:53:08 -0800

This is not a cause for celebration. What do you all think going through an experience like this does to a person? Is no one looking out for this girl's mental health enough to say to her no, don't do this, they will eat you alive, and you likely won't even know the extent of the damage until *well* into adulthood??? But no, she seems to be taking it so well! JFC

By: eviemath

eviemath — Tue, 17 Oct 2023 17:24:43 -0800

I mean. It would be reasonable of her to have expected that she wouldn't get accepted as a pledge due to bigotry, but that if a sorority did have her join, that that would mostly be the end of the matter. In which case she would likely have prepared herself for the initial rejection, and been okay had that occurred. This whole thing where a handful of the sisters initially voted to accept her but then launched a court case is not just bigoted but also just so supremely asinine of them. It's not even that they had some nefarious plan to inflict maximum distress; they were just cowardly idiotic bigots who couldn't even bigot properly - not that bigoting properly is a good thing, but it's generally harder to underestimate people's sheer stupidity.

By: tigrrrlily

tigrrrlily — Tue, 17 Oct 2023 17:42:18 -0800

It all just seems so banal. These transphobes are not even that much more transphobic than the average person, in my experience. The backstab usually comes after everyone's had a chance to look good and "tolerant". And then they notice you're still there. It's pretty much textbook.

By: Big Al 8000

Big Al 8000 — Tue, 17 Oct 2023 21:07:05 -0800

It sounds like they used a Google Form for voting, which if you want to restrict users to specific people and that they only vote once means you have to collect emails. You could send a private link instead but then you don't get the ability to limit the votes. The fact that the plaintiffs expected their emails would be weaponized doesn't speak highly of their character or of the stereotypes around sorority culture. Source: I'm a teacher who just set up a Google Form for one of my classes this evening. That being said, I've never actually received any formal training but I expect my level of knowledge is on par with the average sorority member, so even if I'm wrong I bet my thinking is correct.