Comments on: Simon Wiesenthal, 1908-2005

Simon Wiesenthal, 1908-2005

matteo — Tue, 20 Sep 2005 04:22:30 -0800

By: matteo

matteo — Tue, 20 Sep 2005 04:22:43 -0800

By: matteo

matteo — Tue, 20 Sep 2005 04:23:39 -0800

Wiesenthal spoke often of a Sabbath dinner he had spent at the home of another survivor of Mauthausen, who had become a wealthy jeweler. The man speculated that Wiesenthal could have become a millionaire if he had gone back to architecture instead of hunting Nazis. "When we come to the other world," Wiesenthal said he responded, "and meet the millions of Jews who died in the camps, and they ask us, 'What have you done?' there will be many answers. "You will tell them, 'I became a jeweler.' "Another will say, 'I smuggled coffee and American cigarettes.' "Another will say, 'I built houses.' "But I will say, 'I didn't forget you.'."

By: Malor

Malor — Tue, 20 Sep 2005 04:29:04 -0800

Wow, I haven't gotten to that yet, matteo. But wow. I'm partway into the article and I saw this quote:

No less a personage than novelist Elie Wiesel, who survived Auschwitz and won the Nobel Peace Prize 40 years later, challenged him on his position that non-Jews slaughtered by the Nazis should be counted as Holocaust victims.

This confuses me. Was Elie claiming that only Jews were Holocaust victims? And if so, how on earth could anyone make that claim with a straight face?

By: unrepentanthippie

unrepentanthippie — Tue, 20 Sep 2005 04:41:46 -0800

By: zpousman

zpousman — Tue, 20 Sep 2005 04:44:54 -0800

By: Malor

Malor — Tue, 20 Sep 2005 04:53:45 -0800

Ok, it appears that Elie was claiming exactly that, and that this view is apparently fairly widespread. I won't talk about it here, out of respect for Mr. Wiesenthal, but I plan to bring this up again in some other thread.

By: Meatbomb

Meatbomb — Tue, 20 Sep 2005 05:05:57 -0800

By: amberglow

amberglow — Tue, 20 Sep 2005 05:15:52 -0800

By: Smart Dalek

Smart Dalek — Tue, 20 Sep 2005 05:18:12 -0800

By: moonbird

moonbird — Tue, 20 Sep 2005 05:24:30 -0800

By: walla

walla — Tue, 20 Sep 2005 05:30:42 -0800

By: OmieWise

OmieWise — Tue, 20 Sep 2005 05:38:57 -0800

By: alumshubby

alumshubby — Tue, 20 Sep 2005 05:39:01 -0800

By: unreason

unreason — Tue, 20 Sep 2005 05:44:26 -0800

By: RavinDave

RavinDave — Tue, 20 Sep 2005 05:48:10 -0800

By: anastasiav

anastasiav — Tue, 20 Sep 2005 05:50:48 -0800

"For me was the Holocaust not only a Jewish tragedy, but also a human tragedy. After the war, when I saw that the Jews were talking only about the tragedy of six million Jews, I sent letters to Jewish organizations asking them to talk also about the millions of others who were persecuted with us together - many of them only because they helped Jews." .

By: yhbc

yhbc — Tue, 20 Sep 2005 06:01:40 -0800

By: Jody Tresidder

Jody Tresidder — Tue, 20 Sep 2005 06:19:13 -0800

By: grapefruitmoon

grapefruitmoon — Tue, 20 Sep 2005 06:20:01 -0800

By: SisterHavana

SisterHavana — Tue, 20 Sep 2005 06:20:37 -0800

By: Thoth

Thoth — Tue, 20 Sep 2005 06:24:13 -0800

By: picopebbles

picopebbles — Tue, 20 Sep 2005 06:26:13 -0800

By: Pericles

Pericles — Tue, 20 Sep 2005 06:27:04 -0800

Let's hope that it doesn't mean governments can use his death as an excuse not to hunt down the surviving Nazi scum. They should never feel that they are safe, regardless of how old they are.

By: Eekacat

Eekacat — Tue, 20 Sep 2005 06:30:15 -0800

By: Balisong

Balisong — Tue, 20 Sep 2005 06:35:59 -0800

Godwin? Let's hope that the next generation of war crimes hunters from the current war crime infested campaign live twice as long, and are just as tenatious.

By: snoktruix

snoktruix — Tue, 20 Sep 2005 06:38:39 -0800

There should be some kind of magnificent memorial for this man.

By: Pollomacho

Pollomacho — Tue, 20 Sep 2005 06:40:18 -0800

May the Lord comfort his family among the others mourners of Zion and Jerusalem. Glorified and sanctified be God's great name throughout the world which He has created according to His will. May He establish His kingdom in your lifetime and during your days, and within the life of the entire House of Israel, speedily and soon; and say, Amen. May His great name be blessed forever and to all eternity. Blessed and praised, glorified and exalted, extolled and honored, adored and lauded be the name of the Holy One, blessed be He, beyond all the blessings and hymns, praises and consolations that are ever spoken in the world; and say, Amen. May there be abundant peace from heaven, and life, for us and for all Israel; and say, Amen. He who creates peace in His celestial heights, may He create peace for us and for all Israel; and say, Amen.

By: NationalKato

NationalKato — Tue, 20 Sep 2005 06:42:42 -0800

By: blahblahblah

blahblahblah — Tue, 20 Sep 2005 06:46:13 -0800

One fitting memorial would be to take some time today read the material from the Wiesenthal Museum of Tolerance. The Wiesenthal Center also has material on his life.

By: zpousman

zpousman — Tue, 20 Sep 2005 06:49:46 -0800

Amen. Thanks Pollomacho. Nothing like some aramaic to comfort mourners.

By: Kiell

Kiell — Tue, 20 Sep 2005 06:51:26 -0800

By: jonmc

jonmc — Tue, 20 Sep 2005 06:53:47 -0800

*salutes*

By: fleetmouse

fleetmouse — Tue, 20 Sep 2005 06:54:47 -0800

By: TheDonF

TheDonF — Tue, 20 Sep 2005 06:59:05 -0800

By: kalimac

kalimac — Tue, 20 Sep 2005 07:03:35 -0800

By: googlebombed

googlebombed — Tue, 20 Sep 2005 07:06:34 -0800

By: Pollomacho

Pollomacho — Tue, 20 Sep 2005 07:09:58 -0800

Thanks Pollomacho. Nothing like some aramaic to comfort mourners I think that the Kaddish is usually recited in Hebrew, but I could be wrong. Interesting note, during the holocaust, Jews often recited the Kaddish to each other upon parting as they assumed that they would never see each other again in this world.

By: AJaffe

AJaffe — Tue, 20 Sep 2005 07:44:28 -0800

By: snark9

snark9 — Tue, 20 Sep 2005 07:51:01 -0800

By: Pendragon

Pendragon — Tue, 20 Sep 2005 07:54:35 -0800

By: Pendragon

Pendragon — Tue, 20 Sep 2005 08:02:56 -0800

His experiences with Kohlrautz and Gunthert would later influence Wiesenthal to reject collective guilt. Jews "are the eternal scapegoat," he wrote in "The Murderers Among Us." "We know that we are not collectively guilty, so how can we accuse any other nation, no matter what some of its people have done, of being collectively guilty?"

By: Soliloquy

Soliloquy — Tue, 20 Sep 2005 08:17:54 -0800

By: Ber

Ber — Tue, 20 Sep 2005 08:21:00 -0800

By: pinky

pinky — Tue, 20 Sep 2005 08:26:15 -0800

By: whatnot

whatnot — Tue, 20 Sep 2005 08:27:24 -0800

By: killy willy

killy willy — Tue, 20 Sep 2005 08:43:02 -0800

By: ninthart

ninthart — Tue, 20 Sep 2005 08:50:19 -0800

By: gai

gai — Tue, 20 Sep 2005 08:54:59 -0800

He was a great man. .

By: deborah

deborah — Tue, 20 Sep 2005 09:10:52 -0800

By: cass

cass — Tue, 20 Sep 2005 09:16:23 -0800

By: Rothko

Rothko — Tue, 20 Sep 2005 09:20:17 -0800

By: Asparagirl

Asparagirl — Tue, 20 Sep 2005 09:28:58 -0800

A stage version of [The Diary of Anne Frank] opened in Linz. Young Austrians picketed the play. Wiesenthal confronted a boy who claimed that there was no evidence the Franks had ever lived. "Nobody will believe you," the boy told Wiesenthal, according to Pick, "unless you find the man who arrested her." This is backwards. I have Wiesenthal's book "Murderers Among Us" (got it off eBay), and according to him, he was the one who asked the boys "what if I find the man who arrested her and her family? then will you believe that it really happened?" and the boys had to reluctantly conclude that yes, that would do it. It's an amazing book, and I haven't even read all of it. I could never finish it, just read bits and chpaters here and there , because it's way too powerful to take in all at once. The theme that repeats over and over again is the complete un-caring--not disbelief as much as nonchalance--of people in the 1950's and 1960's towards what had happened in Europe. Again and again, Wiesenthal ran into people who just didn't give a damn that such atrocities had happened. Hence the title of the book.

By: greatgefilte

greatgefilte — Tue, 20 Sep 2005 09:41:01 -0800

. (It's definitely Aramaic, btw)

By: kosem

kosem — Tue, 20 Sep 2005 09:51:12 -0800

. The Mourner's kaddish is written in Aramaic, except for the last line, which is in Hebrew and of biblical (as opposed to Rabbinic) origin.

By: luriete

luriete — Tue, 20 Sep 2005 09:51:21 -0800

Yis'ga'dal v'yis'kadash sh'may ra'bbo, b'olmo dee'vro chir'usay v'yamlich malchu'say, b'chayaychon uv'yomay'chon uv'chayay d'chol bais Yisroel, ba'agolo u'viz'man koriv; v'imru Omein. Y'hay shmay rabbo m'vorach l'olam ul'olmay olmayo. Yisborach v'yishtabach v'yispoar v'yisromam v'yismasay, v'yishador v'yis'aleh v'yisalal, shmay d'kudsho, brich hu, l'aylo min kl birchoso v'sheeroso, tush'bechoso v'nechemoso, da,ameeran b'olmo; vimru Omein. Y'hay shlomo rabbo min sh'mayo, v'chayim alaynu v'al kol Yisroel; v'imru Omein. Oseh sholom bimromov, hu ya'aseh sholom olaynu, v'al kol yisroel; vimru Omein.

By: kosem

kosem — Tue, 20 Sep 2005 09:54:11 -0800

Mourner's kaddish is written in Aramaic, except for the last line, which is in Hebrew (and is of Biblical, as opposed to Rabbinic origin).

By: scody

scody — Tue, 20 Sep 2005 10:43:17 -0800

By: Pollomacho

Pollomacho — Tue, 20 Sep 2005 11:40:41 -0800

Wow, I just assumed. Learn something new every day. I just knew it in English because I was curious what it said from reading holocaust stories. Another interesting note about Aramaic: When I was in Syria I went to a village where they spoke the same dialect of Aramaic as ancient Nazareth and the Sea of Galilee area (Jesus's mother language). A nun recited the lord's prayer for us in that language. It was a rhyming verse poem with meter. The church was dedicated to two saints, some of Jesus's personal friends, a gay couple that were martyred by the Romans. OK derail over, that was my little knowledge of Aramaic.

By: darsh

darsh — Tue, 20 Sep 2005 12:07:41 -0800

By: cookie-k

cookie-k — Tue, 20 Sep 2005 14:45:36 -0800

By: klausness

klausness — Tue, 20 Sep 2005 15:29:02 -0800

By: malpractice

malpractice — Tue, 20 Sep 2005 15:53:25 -0800

By: Decani

Decani — Tue, 20 Sep 2005 15:57:22 -0800

Let's hope that the next generation of war crimes hunters from the current war crime infested campaign live twice as long, and are just as tenatious. .

By: reality

reality — Tue, 20 Sep 2005 18:42:03 -0800

By: Dreama

Dreama — Tue, 20 Sep 2005 19:59:56 -0800

Blessed be his memory.

By: amberglow

amberglow — Tue, 20 Sep 2005 20:09:10 -0800

some quotes: "Technology without hatred can be a blessing. Technology with hatred is always a disaster." "For your benefit, learn from our tragedy. It is not a written law that the next victims must be Jews. It can also be other people."

By: MoralAnimal

MoralAnimal — Tue, 20 Sep 2005 23:02:34 -0800

"For me was the Holocaust not only a Jewish tragedy, but also a human tragedy." . (And I'd like to second Malor's request about bringing up Elie Wiesel again somewhere else.)

By: vac2003

vac2003 — Wed, 21 Sep 2005 02:33:22 -0800