Comments on: Hipsters gone wild.

Hipsters gone wild.

delmoi — Thu, 22 Jun 2006 00:52:39 -0800

"hot foreplay and steamy sex" [nsfw] _{Compelling photos of various hot chicks from various NYC parties, and so on. Some how this guy can make just getting ready to go out seem somehow seedy. Again, not safe for work, although there's not really that much nudity.}

By: wsg

wsg — Thu, 22 Jun 2006 01:08:05 -0800

Shirley, this is photoshopped.

By: delmoi

delmoi — Thu, 22 Jun 2006 01:23:30 -0800

Shirley, this is photoshopped. Heh, there are a few people like that in the world :P

By: wsg

wsg — Thu, 22 Jun 2006 01:39:37 -0800

Not enough!

By: catchmurray

catchmurray — Thu, 22 Jun 2006 01:55:44 -0800

This is exactly what I want to see at 9.30 every morning. How do I get on it?

By: Mr. Six

Mr. Six — Thu, 22 Jun 2006 02:01:27 -0800

Blow sold seperately.

By: id

id — Thu, 22 Jun 2006 02:05:08 -0800

Huh. Looked like the blow was included. Maybe I'm perusing the Platinum Package brochure.

By: loquacious

loquacious — Thu, 22 Jun 2006 02:13:18 -0800

Little known factual fact: All of those pictures were taken in my expansive and rather well appointed dressing room. Yeah, I really do need to pick up a little and take out the trash, but the maid quit last week. Good help is just impossible to find in this town. However, you should be well calmed in knowing that casual photography in the den is verboten. Flashing strobes upset the giant cokesquid and lead to bloodshed, however well dressed and gorgeous said bloodshed may be.

By: econous

econous — Thu, 22 Jun 2006 02:20:38 -0800

Oh dear christ the humanity.. I can only hope photoshop has been applied both poorly and with abandon in that image.

By: elpapacito

elpapacito — Thu, 22 Jun 2006 02:41:19 -0800

It is so uniformly decadent it looks like decadence is the topic of the photographer rather the party. The more I look at the faces the more it's like "what ? I wonder if it shows I am trying to have fun" ...depressing like a teenager party in which nobody knows how to start a contact.

By: furiousthought

furiousthought — Thu, 22 Jun 2006 02:52:33 -0800

Oh, yeah, that... if you haven't run across Gawker's "Blue States Lose" feature, lastnightsparty.com features pretty prominently there.

By: nihraguk

nihraguk — Thu, 22 Jun 2006 03:10:39 -0800

elpapacito: i agree, much like those movies or Sade-ian literature that exposed the decadence at the heart of Victorian society.

By: cubby

cubby — Thu, 22 Jun 2006 03:26:11 -0800

i hate that guy at a party who insists on taking pictures. now it seems like that guy might be up to some high minded art shenanigans? well, i still hate that guy, even if some of the pictures come out good. also, with any luck, this was also photoshopped

By: cubby

cubby — Thu, 22 Jun 2006 03:29:07 -0800

whoops, econous beat me to it.

By: twistedonion

twistedonion — Thu, 22 Jun 2006 03:45:32 -0800

these people are so plastic you would expect them all to melt in that heat. I've never felt so proud of my crooked, decaying, yellow teeth.

By: emelenjr

emelenjr — Thu, 22 Jun 2006 04:06:13 -0800

I'm Carol!

By: emelenjr

emelenjr — Thu, 22 Jun 2006 04:07:35 -0800

(I'm Farrell.)

By: loquacious

loquacious — Thu, 22 Jun 2006 04:25:58 -0800

Oh dear christ the humanity.. I can only hope photoshop has been applied both poorly and with abandon in that image. That's my mom, you fucker! also, with any luck, this was also photoshopped Oh yeah? Check this out.

By: TonyRobots

TonyRobots — Thu, 22 Jun 2006 04:28:03 -0800

cubby, econous, no. That's not photoshop. That's the horrifying Amanda Lepore.

By: jaded

jaded — Thu, 22 Jun 2006 04:28:46 -0800

not photoshop. wierd drag queens/trannys.

By: caddis

caddis — Thu, 22 Jun 2006 04:31:59 -0800

nice context

By: unSane

unSane — Thu, 22 Jun 2006 04:36:45 -0800

fuck, that reminds me how much I detest that kind of party

By: jpburns

jpburns — Thu, 22 Jun 2006 04:42:35 -0800

Ahhh... "Youth is wasted on the young...."

By: zpousman

zpousman — Thu, 22 Jun 2006 04:55:50 -0800

This is why NYC is in a different timezone than the rest of the east coast. When you go there for the weekend, it's like living on L.A. time. Stay up 'til 4, get up at 12:30. That's only 9:30 on the west coast!

By: dobbs

dobbs — Thu, 22 Jun 2006 04:57:50 -0800

His Urban Pinup site is excellent and was going to be my next FPP. Wonderful stuff. (nsfw)

By: Mayor Curley

Mayor Curley — Thu, 22 Jun 2006 05:02:07 -0800

When I become Stalin, these people will have their parties on their Collective in eastern Alaska and they will die because I will deny them access to the antibiotics that they obviously need.

By: weretable and the undead chairs

weretable and the undead chairs — Thu, 22 Jun 2006 05:05:37 -0800

This is so not making me any more interested in visiting NYC. heh

By: The Card Cheat

The Card Cheat — Thu, 22 Jun 2006 05:11:14 -0800

The thing about hot tub parties is...by a certain point in the night, you have to know an uncomfortably high percentage of the "water" you're marinating in is piss.

By: SteveInMaine

SteveInMaine — Thu, 22 Jun 2006 05:22:56 -0800

The late, great, Harry Caray, reincarnated as a woman (I think).

By: empath

empath — Thu, 22 Jun 2006 05:28:07 -0800

I was at this party. 70,000 people at a massive coke and ecstasy-fueled dance music festival in Miami Beach, all the best DJs in the world, plus the Killers, etc.. Awesome day.

By: sohcahtoa

sohcahtoa — Thu, 22 Jun 2006 05:28:59 -0800

Do white people always look so bored?

By: funambulist

funambulist — Thu, 22 Jun 2006 05:35:52 -0800

confessions on a dancefloor? (naaah)

By: SmileyChewtrain

SmileyChewtrain — Thu, 22 Jun 2006 05:41:06 -0800

I was doing some videotaping for a band at an event which this dude staked out. While I was running around at the front of the stage trying to get the best angles this guy would keep walking up right near me with a big ol' camera, lookin' at me like "You'reStandIngInMySpotThatIsMySpotIAmAPhotograherAndIMustHaveTheBestSpot." It was a little creepy, like telepathic glaring. Only later did somebody point out that he was the last-night's-party guy... and then it made sense. Funny thing is, it wasn't really that c-r-a-z-y of a party - just a promotional event in williamsburg for a product I can't even recall with a fairly hip band... on a tuesday. The dude's certainly able to find/instigate the pictures that make the parties seem exceptionally exciting.

By: fungible

fungible — Thu, 22 Jun 2006 05:41:28 -0800

Looks kinda fun to me. You guys suck.

By: Mr. Six

Mr. Six — Thu, 22 Jun 2006 05:41:36 -0800

Do white people always look so bored? Only when the coke and smack runs out. Until then it's a blast.

By: 517

517 — Thu, 22 Jun 2006 05:48:40 -0800

This is one of those blogs where they use the word "urban".

By: funambulist

funambulist — Thu, 22 Jun 2006 05:50:47 -0800

Damn you twistedonion, you're just reinforcing stereotypes about Brits! or even, Irish... I always wondered what exactly did 'hipsters' mean in American usage, or even just Metafilter usage. So, basically, it's just upper scale chavs and slappers? Not that there's anything wrong with that, it's just, 'hipster' sounds a little too vague to me now.

By: stavrosthewonderchicken

stavrosthewonderchicken — Thu, 22 Jun 2006 05:51:59 -0800

How embarrassing for all of us.

By: wallstreet1929

wallstreet1929 — Thu, 22 Jun 2006 05:53:46 -0800

If we can't have fifteen minutes, we'll take 15 seconds. Or less.

By: DieHipsterDie

DieHipsterDie — Thu, 22 Jun 2006 05:54:46 -0800

Do white people always look so bored? It's totally uncool to show that you're having fun. You didn't know that?

By: DieHipsterDie

DieHipsterDie — Thu, 22 Jun 2006 05:55:46 -0800

And what the hey is a 'chav?'

By: Human Flesh

Human Flesh — Thu, 22 Jun 2006 06:05:39 -0800

Would anyone care for some sour grapes?

By: 517

517 — Thu, 22 Jun 2006 06:06:08 -0800

Hipster.

By: clevershark

clevershark — Thu, 22 Jun 2006 06:14:47 -0800

On the internet everyone has more fun than you.

By: clevershark

clevershark — Thu, 22 Jun 2006 06:15:07 -0800

The thing about hot tub parties is...by a certain point in the night, you have to know an uncomfortably high percentage of the "water" you're marinating in is piss. Sure, piss... if you're lucky.

By: fet

fet — Thu, 22 Jun 2006 06:16:26 -0800

Also, LA Version: The Cobrasnake. Many of the photos from LNP are taken from MisShapes, who also have their own photos.

By: stavrosthewonderchicken

stavrosthewonderchicken — Thu, 22 Jun 2006 06:16:54 -0800

Hipster. You know, tonight, that makes me want to go on a gut-biting, intestine-strewn killing spree. Guts for garlands, brother. Not because there's yet another semi-identifiable fashion cohort that media can pointlessly pontificate about and tribal-identifying idiots can revile because they need something other to focus their anger and impotent resentment upon (hippies, yuppies, pick a decade, pick a collar style) - duh -- but because some fucking hack can make money writing a worthless tree-killing groupwank of a book about it, and Ah, fuck it. I ran out of steam. But fuck you Random House, you cocksuckers. Give me a book contract, or. Or. Well, nothing, basically. Still. Grrrrr.

By: 517

517 — Thu, 22 Jun 2006 06:20:45 -0800

I swear there's another, funnier, one out there but I can't find it. Perhaps your moment isn't lost stavros.

By: Dormant Gorilla

Dormant Gorilla — Thu, 22 Jun 2006 06:22:43 -0800

and they will die because I will deny them access to the antibiotics that they obviously need. Thank you, Mayor Curley. My morning coffee is now seeping into my keyboard, having been snorted out of my nose.

By: any major dude

any major dude — Thu, 22 Jun 2006 06:31:01 -0800

"you shoulda hung out man"

By: bouncebounce

bouncebounce — Thu, 22 Jun 2006 06:32:16 -0800

Can we add these arseholes to the list of people who don't matter?

By: beerbajay

beerbajay — Thu, 22 Jun 2006 06:35:50 -0800

Hipster is a word used by people to dismiss various other semi-groups of people whose interest in music, fashion, drugs, or whatever is different than theirs and who they perceive as "too cool."

By: stavrosthewonderchicken

stavrosthewonderchicken — Thu, 22 Jun 2006 06:43:10 -0800

Golly! Ya reckon, chief?!

By: loquacious

loquacious — Thu, 22 Jun 2006 06:43:49 -0800

Bingo!

By: jonmc

jonmc — Thu, 22 Jun 2006 06:59:40 -0800

comedy gold, beerbajay, comedy gold.

By: edgeways

edgeways — Thu, 22 Jun 2006 07:00:33 -0800

Last night's party... I'd actually be more interested in seeing, Next-morning's-regret. Seriously. There where a lot of deer-in-a-headlight shots there. After about 10-20 I thought these where rather boring pictures. The photography is not great, so it's all down to subject matter, and the subject doesn't really matter (to me), so a big meh here.

By: ChasFile

ChasFile — Thu, 22 Jun 2006 07:05:48 -0800

People still give a shit about Last Night's Party?

By: 517

517 — Thu, 22 Jun 2006 07:16:18 -0800

With such high standards, how could you miss?

By: nixerman

nixerman — Thu, 22 Jun 2006 07:17:51 -0800

I don't really get these parties. People just stand around and drink and chat. Nobody dances except for a few of your standard Drunk White Girls (Buy 2 get 1 free). Makes me think my original idea to offer a college course on how to party really wasn't a bad idea. And yeah, I hate the guy that takes pictures. Though I hate the people who mug for the camera even more.

By: unSane

unSane — Thu, 22 Jun 2006 07:18:36 -0800

where's the rural hipster site?

By: catchmurray

catchmurray — Thu, 22 Jun 2006 07:26:41 -0800

DieHipsterDie -- Google is your friend.

By: Skygazer

Skygazer — Thu, 22 Jun 2006 07:29:55 -0800

Oh Yay!!! Vapid narcissist sheep who're fucking up my neighborhood with their trust funds and ridiculious rents!! Woohoo!! Now where did I leave that damn hand lotion.

By: Human Flesh

Human Flesh — Thu, 22 Jun 2006 07:30:37 -0800

So Nixerman, what are people supposed to do at a party?

By: waxbanks

waxbanks — Thu, 22 Jun 2006 07:34:03 -0800

I don't understand. WHO are these people? i.e. I know what hipsters are, I hate them just as much as everyone else, but...like what circle of people is this who party in this fashion? I see bored assholes, and I know I'm capable of being one of those in a pinch, if on a different scale, but how exactly does one get invited to parties this size and style? What circles do you have to run in? I'm going to eat some ramen. I want some answers by the time it's done!

By: dobie

dobie — Thu, 22 Jun 2006 07:38:56 -0800

These sites have basically become self-perpetuating. If you follow the gawker bluestateslose thread, you see the same people every week doing the same poses. Some people go to church for the same sense of community, others do drugs, the internet...

By: jonmc

jonmc — Thu, 22 Jun 2006 07:40:29 -0800

So Nixerman, what are people supposed to do at a party? Snark on mefi.

By: Astro Zombie

Astro Zombie — Thu, 22 Jun 2006 07:46:21 -0800

Why are all those chicks pulling out their titties at the parties? What are they -- bikers?

By: Human Flesh

Human Flesh — Thu, 22 Jun 2006 08:00:37 -0800

I don't understand. WHO are these people? i.e. I know what hipsters are, I hate them just as much as everyone else, but...like what circle of people is this who party in this fashion? I see bored assholes, and I know I'm capable of being one of those in a pinch, if on a different scale, but how exactly does one get invited to parties this size and style? What circles do you have to run in? There's no secret handshake. If you live in a big city, you can find flyers for these kind of events at independent record stores.

By: aiq

aiq — Thu, 22 Jun 2006 08:05:00 -0800

real hipsters (like me) like straight ahead jazz and baseball (in a literary sort of way) and wear hats. we read newspapers and are also mildly socialist... now go to a jazz club and have a gin and tonic, you squares!

By: jonmc

jonmc — Thu, 22 Jun 2006 08:05:16 -0800

By: splatta

splatta — Thu, 22 Jun 2006 08:08:23 -0800

blue states lose is a crappy knock off of the wonderful vice dos and don'ts

By: Human Flesh

Human Flesh — Thu, 22 Jun 2006 08:21:20 -0800

The fact that you can find those flyers does not neccessarily mean you are welcome there. That's the big secret. For all the rhetoric about being free and different and all that bullshit, these people are basically the popular clique in your high school only with drugs and artistic pretensions. Is that why so many people on MetaFilter seem to be seething with resentment? You can find drugs and popular cliques at nearly any high school. There are some people, though, that have to move to a big city before they can find a sizable crowd that shares their interest in various media that lack mass appeal.

By: jonmc

jonmc — Thu, 22 Jun 2006 08:26:03 -0800

There are some people, though, that have to move to a big city before they can find a sizable crowd that shares their interest in various media that lack mass appeal. But sadly, they often become as tiresome, conformist and exclusionary as the people who once excluded them. I don't resent them, I could be them in many ways if I wanted to, but I don't. Not my cup of tea.

By: Stauf

Stauf — Thu, 22 Jun 2006 08:37:23 -0800

Do white people always look so bored? It's totally uncool to show that you're having fun. You didn't know that? Er... I thought I saw a lot of people having fun in those pictures....

By: econous

econous — Thu, 22 Jun 2006 08:45:05 -0800

Nixerman is right, those kinda parties where you dress up a little, and just chill with drinks & friends sure do suck. Especially when some guy in the corner is playing music you enjoy and you get chatting to some really cool people or maybe find yourself getting a little high - man I fucking hate that shit.

By: borborygmi

borborygmi — Thu, 22 Jun 2006 08:57:55 -0800

Some of these shindigs are (were?) promoted at myopenbar.com .. Here's their listing for an event tonight:

Stache Don Hill's 511 Greenwich Street, at Spring Street. TriBeCa The Deal: 10pm free SoCo (until it's dry) Amanda Lepore + brand-name liquor + a cult queercore band xLimpwristx (whose best-known song is "I Love Hardcore Boys, I Love Boys Hardcore")= blog-worthy scene in the making. Perhaps you'll witness a famous tranny wigless as a result of some hair-pulling with one of the MisShapes, or maybe you'll see ScarJo making out with a woman -- either way, you can still send Gawker your story Friday morning (and don't forget to attach your fuzzy camera-phone pics -- even I look like ScarJo on your Nokia).

They've got their finger on the pulse of this crowd...

By: 517

517 — Thu, 22 Jun 2006 09:02:02 -0800

How could you say no?

By: Fuka

Fuka — Thu, 22 Jun 2006 09:17:17 -0800

Chav

By: Divine_Wino

Divine_Wino — Thu, 22 Jun 2006 09:24:40 -0800

Once in a while I have occasion to drive through Williamsburg, in Brooklyn. The north side is a (perhaps shark jumping) epicenter of these pretty vacant things. If you keep the windows up and throw on a little Zepplin you can construct a pretty funny movie for yourself. People kinda pooch on down the street with their expensive eighties clothes and $200 jeans that come pre-filthy and pointy shoes and bedhead hair. I mean, it's just an upper-middle class subculture, fashion, misunderstood irony and chic politics (or chic a-politics and fashionable nihilism, actually those types are a bit more fun, although even more in a rut). However, it's such an end of history uber-subculture that really has no other hook or philosophy than its own self-obsession that it becomes a super-parody. Everyone tries so hard to be an individual that they lose all individuality. No one can like any art that is not part of the accepted consenus without being ironic, so a bunch of people listen to, say... Iron Maiden, but not because they rock but because it's funny to listen to Iron Maiden. They are truely useless people. There is an older crowd in Williamsburg (or there was) that pioneered there, they do some ok stuff, they work in cabinet shops or fund their interests with bartending and the like, they seem like pretty decent bohemian types, I wonder where they will go when they are finally totally priced out by the rich kids? The best part is you can drive from North Williamsburg to the southside and it's (again rapidly gentrifying) a Hasidic neighborhood. Everyone dresses in funny clothes, britches, giant fur hats, little black pumps. They have crazy beards and wild hair. The women rock a modest kind of intentionally ugly style of dress. They are very insular and focused on themselves. I keep expecting the hipsters to sort of become Hasids by osmosis. Matisyahu is probably the vanguard of that transformation. I've been to some of these parties, they are seriously boring. Sometimes my musical tastes co-incide with "hipster" music though, you can just bring your fun friends and have a good time and sort of bug out on them. Same as it ever was I guess, except Andy Warhol is dead.

By: Human Flesh

Human Flesh — Thu, 22 Jun 2006 09:45:30 -0800

What social milieu do you think is superior to hipsterdom, Divine_Wino? Ironic appreciation of music is not new. Read Notes On "Camp" written by Susan Sontag in 1964.

By: jonmc

jonmc — Thu, 22 Jun 2006 09:53:58 -0800

What social milieu do you think is superior to hipsterdom, Divine_Wino? I won't speak for the Wino, but I kind of prefer just the general urban mix that occurs naturally. Because, for all their striving for individuality, the hipsters are still far less interesting than most 'ordinary,' people you meet. They're herd animals who want to create little youth fashion reservations, which wouldn't be so bad if it didn't result in gentrification and all it's attendant woes. Ironic appreciation of music is not new. Read Notes On "Camp" written by Susan Sontag in 1964. No, it's not. But it's still much like smelling your own farts. Fun at first, but after awhile, you're merely stinking up the room for no good reason.

By: jonmc

jonmc — Thu, 22 Jun 2006 09:57:42 -0800

No one can like any art that is not part of the accepted consenus without being ironic, so a bunch of people listen to, say... Iron Maiden, but not because they rock but because it's funny to listen to Iron Maiden. Bingo. That kind of conformity is the exact opposite of cool, as far as I'm concerned. And Iron Maiden doth rock, and there's nothing funny about them.

By: milovoo

milovoo — Thu, 22 Jun 2006 09:59:03 -0800

There are some people, though, that have to move to a big city before they can find a sizable crowd that shares their interest in various media that lack mass appeal. But sadly, they often become as tiresome, conformist and exclusionary as the people who once excluded them. I don't resent them, I could be them in many ways if I wanted to, but I don't. Not my cup of tea. I know I say this almost every single time this comes up, but they really aren't exclusionary. That is your self-imposed projection because you don't want to join them, certainly some are boring vapid kids, but don't make it sounds like they're closing off the velvet rope just when you get to the door or snubbing you and giggling behind your back. If you went, there would probably be some impressionable youngsters who would be impressed with your bitter curmudgeon persona and gather around just to hear you expound on urban life, or perhaps there would be some friendly MeFolks there that you might already know (then wouldn't you seem like the clique). Or you could just dance and dig the music by yourself, which is a big part of the purpose anyway, right? I've been to this kind of thing and I'm far geekier and more introverted than you (and about half the time it's quite fun). You don't have to go, no one expects you to go, but it's absolutely not their fault that you don't. And the whole conformity argument is also ridiculous, but you must realize that by now. It's healthy for the crazy creative kids to try new stuff and then the less brave kids to wear pale knock-off versions of the stuff that the creative kids have made up. That's how fashions work and since you have benefited from earlier generations imposing their jeans and t-shirt "conformity" on the button up folks, you have very little to complain about. Personally, I don't like most jazz clubs, never have, but I don't go around saying that jazz fans are tiresome, conformist and exclusionary. I just don't go, no further rational needed.

By: Mr. Six

Mr. Six — Thu, 22 Jun 2006 10:02:34 -0800

Same as it ever was I guess, except Andy Warhol is dead. Brilliant comment. Cheers.

By: Divine_Wino

Divine_Wino — Thu, 22 Jun 2006 10:07:41 -0800

I have read notes on camp, thanks. I never claimed hipsters invented ironic anything or newness of any kind. For instance, Dear Susan Sontag says right away: 1. To start very generally: Camp is a certain mode of aestheticism. It is one way of seeing the world as an aesthetic phenomenon. That way, the way of Camp, is not in terms of beauty, but in terms of the degree of artifice, of stylization. I don't find that love of artifice with hipster types, in fact I feel like few of them are doing more than dressing and acting like their peers. Being a fake metal dude with a sidekick and an ipod and some shitty coke is not the same thing as a whole subculture built around things like: Zuleika Dobson Tiffany lamps Scopitone films The Brown Derby restaurant on Sunset Boulevard in LA The Enquirer, headlines and stories Aubrey Beardsley drawings Swan Lake Bellini's operas Visconti's direction of Salome and 'Tis Pity She's a Whore certain turn-of-the-century picture postcards Schoedsack's King Kong the Cuban pop singer La Lupe Lynn Ward's novel in woodcuts, God's Man the old Flash Gordon comics women's clothes of the twenties (feather boas, fringed and beaded dresses, etc.) the novels of Ronald Firbank and Ivy Compton-Burnett stag movies seen without lust Rather a diluted imitation without the scholarly appreciation of a rap producer sampling obscure funk and soul and black disco or the goofy, intelligent lampooning of the fifties that John Waters did. I find more interest in almost every other youth culture, human flesh. Possible exceptions being frat types and suburban hiphop mall thugs. However it's not a race and inasmuch as hipsters can lay claim to a band like TV on the Radio (I think they are brilliant) I thank them. One thing some/many metafilter users fail at is recognizing that it is not necessary to have a polarized either or feeling about everything. I don't hate hipsters, I don't find them that great either. When I say I find them useless it's because they DON'T DO ANYTHING. There are exceptions to that like there are to anything else. Some more from Sontag that marks the difference: 18. One must distinguish between naïve and deliberate Camp. Pure Camp is always naive. Camp which knows itself to be Camp ("camping") is usually less satisfying. and 19. The pure examples of Camp are unintentional; they are dead serious. The Art Nouveau craftsman who makes a lamp with a snake coiled around it is not kidding, nor is he trying to be charming. He is saying, in all earnestness: Voilà! the Orient! Genuine Camp -- for instance, the numbers devised for the Warner Brothers musicals of the early thirties (42nd Street; The Golddiggers of 1933; ... of 1935; ... of 1937; etc.) by Busby Berkeley -- does not mean to be funny. Camping -- say, the plays of Noel Coward -- does. It seems unlikely that much of the traditional opera repertoire could be such satisfying Camp if the melodramatic absurdities of most opera plots had not been taken seriously by their composers. One doesn't need to know the artist's private intentions. The work tells all. (Compare a typical 19th century opera with Samuel Barber's Vanessa, a piece of manufactured, calculated Camp, and the difference is clear.) 20. Probably, intending to be campy is always harmful. The perfection of Trouble in Paradise and The Maltese Falcon, among the greatest Camp movies ever made, comes from the effortless smooth way in which tone is maintained. This is not so with such famous would-be Camp films of the fifties as All About Eve and Beat the Devil. These more recent movies have their fine moments, but the first is so slick and the second so hysterical; they want so badly to be campy that they're continually losing the beat. . . . Perhaps, though, it is not so much a question of the unintended effect versus the conscious intention, as of the delicate relation between parody and self-parody in Camp. The films of Hitchcock are a showcase for this problem. When self-parody lacks ebullience but instead reveals (even sporadically) a contempt for one's themes and one's materials - as in To Catch a Thief, Rear Window, North by Northwest -- the results are forced and heavy-handed, rarely Camp. Successful Camp -- a movie like Carné's Drôle de Drame; the film performances of Mae West and Edward Everett Horton; portions of the Goon Show -- even when it reveals self-parody, reeks of self-love.

By: jonmc

jonmc — Thu, 22 Jun 2006 10:07:50 -0800

milovoo: I've met you. Even though you live in Brooklyn you're not the kind of person we're talking about. That is your self-imposed projection because you don't want to join them, certainly some are boring vapid kids, but don't make it sounds like they're closing off the velvet rope just when you get to the door or snubbing you and giggling behind your back. Dude, in any cultural scene (including one's I've participated in) the majority of participants are boring and vapid. That's just a fact of life. But online and off, I've seen the conformity at work. Slag the latest It Band, or cool movie and you're a pariah. You don't have to go, no one expects you to go, but it's absolutely not their fault that you don't. That's fine with me. I'm just saying that it all seems a little..contrived and silly to me. Some Ivy League kids going wild for a few years, that's all. I've had conversations with these kids, usually it's a kid from a wealthy midwestern suburb with a liberal arts degree, no day job, who felt misunderstood at home and came to NYC to interact with other people like himself. Which is fine, except it turns areas of the city into summer camps with overpriced vintage t-shirts and cheap coke. Plus, much of stuff they enjoy ironically is stuff I enjoy sincerely, which rankles after a while.

By: Divine_Wino

Divine_Wino — Thu, 22 Jun 2006 10:14:46 -0800

You could be their king Jon, you just wouldn't want to be.

By: jonmc

jonmc — Thu, 22 Jun 2006 10:19:09 -0800

Well, yeah, except I don't have the financial resources to sit around all the time doing nothing.

By: jonmc

jonmc — Thu, 22 Jun 2006 10:20:40 -0800

By: Divine_Wino

Divine_Wino — Thu, 22 Jun 2006 10:21:17 -0800

On a summer day In the month of May A burly bum came hiking Down a shady lane Through the sugar cane He was looking for his liking As he roamed along He sang a song Of the land of milk and honey Where a bum can stay For many a day And he won't need any money Chorus: Oh the buzzin' of the bees In the cigarette trees Near the soda water fountain At the lemonade springs Where the bluebird sings On the big rock candy mountain

By: Divine_Wino

Divine_Wino — Thu, 22 Jun 2006 10:25:07 -0800

I find it's actually not the music* that is so bad. The YYY's have some joints. Really. It's the thing as a "thing" that itches you. Which is probably right, we all just have different things that itch us. *or at least some small percentage. Actually the suburban mall thugs with their deadly earnest have a much greater claim to being Camp objects, under Sontag's rules. Ha ha.

By: jonmc

jonmc — Thu, 22 Jun 2006 10:26:18 -0800

Everybody at your party They don't look depressed Everybody dressin' funny Color me impressed Stayin' out late tonight Won't be gettin' any sleep Givin' out their word Cuz that's all that they won't keep Put the party on the mirror Oh shit, pass the bill to Chris Intoxicated lover ending our french kiss Can you stand me on my feet? Can you stand me on my feet? (Everybody) Everybody at your party They don't look depressed And everybody's dressin' funny Color me impressed Color me impressed Color me impressed Color me impressed Color me impressed I call it out

By: milovoo

milovoo — Thu, 22 Jun 2006 10:29:33 -0800

Even though you live in Brooklyn you're not the kind of person we're talking about. Oh, I know that, it's just that I have a lot of exposure to b'burg hipsters and have found that in general they're mostly normal New Yorkers, they just have a few really annoying members that make everyone look like idiots. usually it's a kid from a wealthy midwestern suburb with a liberal arts degree, no day job, who felt misunderstood at home and came to NYC to interact with other people like himself. These folks are a certain percentage, but I think it's an overused stereotype. There are just as many other kinds of folks, it's just that when you are annoyed and notice someone - it's usually these folks. It's another one of those confirmation biases that are all the rage these days. If it's an annoying pretentious dude from the UES, he's just another annoying pretentious dude, but if he's from Williamsburg, suddenly it's "ALL HIPSTERS MUST DIE!!".

By: jonmc

jonmc — Thu, 22 Jun 2006 10:33:12 -0800

Milo: when we use the term 'hipster,' it's the dorks you describe we're referring to, not any artistically inclined person who lives in Brooklyn. And thses people tend to be rather vocal (see Pitchfork). My neighborhood is home to lots of artists and recent grads, but they seem to content to simply become part of the neighborhood rather than refashion it in their own image, which is what happened in Billyburg.

By: milovoo

milovoo — Thu, 22 Jun 2006 10:33:24 -0800

Oh, and there's a whole layer of ugly added because some folks see dollar signs hanging over the whole neighborhood and culture. They might have almost missed grunge in the 80's but they're taking no chances this time. Buy it and package while it's still hot for the biggest return. That's a big part of the gross summer camp veneer of which you speak. Honest starving artists tend be be much more tolerable.

By: jonmc

jonmc — Thu, 22 Jun 2006 10:35:52 -0800

(I also have a special grudge about Williamsburg, since two of my uncles grew up there pre-gentrification (I lived there briefly myself back around '91) when it was a completely different and arguably better place)

By: xod

xod — Thu, 22 Jun 2006 10:37:34 -0800

You know that one weird dude in your class who always bitched about your town and talked about how he was going to move to New York one day? He did. They all did. In fact, that's what New York is.

By: jonmc

jonmc — Thu, 22 Jun 2006 10:39:16 -0800

Well, xod, that's what Manhattan and a lot of Brooklyn is. The rest of the city is where the people who fix their cars and do their taxes live.

By: milovoo

milovoo — Thu, 22 Jun 2006 10:39:20 -0800

It's NYC, everyone kicked out someone, unless you're dutch .. or indian, maybe.

By: xod

xod — Thu, 22 Jun 2006 10:40:58 -0800

Kids these days.

By: milovoo

milovoo — Thu, 22 Jun 2006 10:41:56 -0800

yup.

By: Skygazer

Skygazer — Thu, 22 Jun 2006 10:43:09 -0800

That's a fine snapshot of the cultural vertigo to be found here Divine-Wino. As for where will the original Boho's end up, there's no way in hell I would say. I don't want to be a part of the ongoing media circle jerk inspired via the finance Co's and the R.E. powers that be . It's like who needs highways built by Robert Moses to destroy neighborhoods when you've got Time Out NY and The NY Times giving throat jobs to Corcoran, Bloomberg and Rattner and dying to name the next "hot neighborhood". See after 911 Bloomberg needed to get the city economy jumping again etc. so he opened the flood gates to the developers. A bunch of construction jobs were created and a bunch of people sold buildings and made a mint on the speculation. Problem is, they were and are temporary jobs, those construction gigs, going predominantly to guys living in the burbs who don't care about the city. Even more fucked than that is that once the developer genie is out of the bottle it's a bitch contolling it. And that genie has run roughshod over everything in it's path. With the result being a load of big ugly non-contextual towers springing up like weeds of avariciousness full of faux-luxury condo's artificially priced at an average of 750K to One MILLION. Even more grotesque is that NYC taxpayers have subsudized the demise of their own neighborhoods by giving Billions in Developer-welfare to an industry determined to fuck them over as hard as possible. Through 421a (a special program started in the early 70's when NYC was desperate to get developers to build luxury housing in NYC). For which the obscenely wealthy developers get a 20 year break on property taxes.. So to get back to the original question: A lot of the original Boho's have had to leave this neighborhood if not for the rent's than because it's been sickening to see what's happening. But I think we might have the last laugh. Because judging by the increasingly strident advertising for these million dollar condo's, I don't think they're selling that well and the developers are getting more and more desperate to unload them. Hopefully it leads to there being an increase in the vacancy rate for affordable apts. As for the baby-hipsters, I guess they're not so bad (for ex-jocks and frat boys) but christ, I've never seen a sub-genre (uber or otherwise) be so entirely devoid of Cajones. They need to stand up and risk a little confrontation because they're fucking it up for people (the working class folks and the original boho's) who've given a lot to establish these neighborhoods I wish they would say fuck you to landlords and developers who are raping them as well as all the phony "whole Foods" like groceries who mark everything up by a third. People kinda pooch on down the street with their expensive eighties clothes and $200 jeans that come pre-filthy and pointy shoes and bedhead hair. I mean, it's just an upper-middle class subculture, fashion, misunderstood irony and chic politics (or chic a-politics and fashionable nihilism, actually those types are a bit more fun, although even more in a rut). That reminds me. The morning of 911, I was walking more or less numbly to the east river through North Williamsburg, to see if there was anything left of the towers, when this rail thin bedheaded cool t-shirt hipster fuckhead passed by me on Bedford Street singing "It's the End of the World As We Know It" by REM and I knew than and there the neighborhood had changed forever. No one knew at that point how many people had died (some estimates were as high as 40,000 and this sociopathic little bitch uses it as an opportunity to be oh-so-cool and above it all. If I'd had my wits about me I would've slapped that kid.

By: Divine_Wino

Divine_Wino — Thu, 22 Jun 2006 10:49:44 -0800

I need to get way more into local tenants rights and fair housing stuff, it's driving me crazy.

By: Human Flesh

Human Flesh — Thu, 22 Jun 2006 11:07:29 -0800

I won't speak for the Wino, but I kind of prefer just the general urban mix that occurs naturally. I don't see how the thrift store styles that hipsters are known to sport are anymore unnatural than metalhead or stockbroker garb.

By: jonmc

jonmc — Thu, 22 Jun 2006 11:13:48 -0800

Human Flesh, paying $75 for a Twisted Sister t-shirt that I paid $15 in 1985 and wearing it as a 'camp,' object is pretty fucking unnatural, and maybe a little insulting.

By: birdie birdington

birdie birdington — Thu, 22 Jun 2006 11:17:32 -0800

(and hell, even suburban hip-hop mall thugs are more interesting than the Pitchfork/American Apparell/YeahYeahYeah's crowd, since they do seem to connect to the whole thug thing, even though it's in a ridiculous way) Is there really some huge American Apparel to hipster crossover? Because I thought you shop at American Apparel 'cos you needed some t-shirts or wow, it just turned into summer out there and I need some tanktops before the sun and its heat kill me. Whenever I go into American Apparel it's just me, some moms, and a guy looking to replace a grey hoodie.

By: jonmc

jonmc — Thu, 22 Jun 2006 11:21:39 -0800

The hipsters are who goes there. Everybody else just goes to the discount store.

By: Alvy Ampersand

Alvy Ampersand — Thu, 22 Jun 2006 11:34:03 -0800

These kinds of things always reminded me of that KITH intro where all those wild cool people are makin' the scene. I always just wanted to sit on the couch with Kevin and have a beer. where's the rural hipster site? Drive out past Junior's dad's farm, out to the Old Barn, with your windows rolled down. Go over the Texas gate - be careful, the road's muddy as hell, and just drive until you smell burning tires. Follow your nose, you'll see the bonfire eventually. And don't bring that fucken Dale, or I'll kick your ass after I'm done with his. Oh. You meant a URL.

By: Human Flesh

Human Flesh — Thu, 22 Jun 2006 11:48:17 -0800

Wino, hipsters themselves aren't typically camp, they just appreciate camp.

By: econous

econous — Thu, 22 Jun 2006 11:52:15 -0800

Only ugly poor people go to discount stores in the United Kingdom. You can tell by driving past and glancing through the sticker laden windows. American Apparel is merely the Dan Brown of cheap apparel.

By: Divine_Wino

Divine_Wino — Thu, 22 Jun 2006 12:00:20 -0800

human: I don't think they do. Alas, oh well.

By: nixerman

nixerman — Thu, 22 Jun 2006 12:20:46 -0800

annoying pretentious dude from the UES Please don't rag on pretentious dudes from the UES. They are better than you and have more money.

By: waxbanks

waxbanks — Thu, 22 Jun 2006 12:44:18 -0800

Someone said:

Ironic appreciation of music is not new. Read Notes On "Camp" written by Susan Sontag in 1964.

No, don't bother.

By: Human Flesh

Human Flesh — Thu, 22 Jun 2006 12:45:09 -0800

I'm a hipster (yes, I know, it's terribly unhip to self-identify as being part of any youth subculture) and I like camp art. Were it not for hipster video stores, I might not have been exposed to genres that ooze camp such as Mexican wrestling films and juvenile delinquent movies.

By: jonmc

jonmc — Thu, 22 Jun 2006 12:47:38 -0800

Were it not for hipster video stores, I might not have been exposed to genres that ooze camp such as Mexican wrestling films and juvenile delinquent movies. I watch movies like that too, but probably through something of a different eye. Too much of the 'camp,' sensibility is predicated on feeling superior to what you're viewing, whether through contempt or condescension, and that seems to a lousy way to veiw the world.

By: xod

xod — Thu, 22 Jun 2006 12:52:36 -0800

Sontag would beg to differ.

By: jonmc

jonmc — Thu, 22 Jun 2006 12:55:16 -0800

Vive la differance.

By: Human Flesh

Human Flesh — Thu, 22 Jun 2006 13:01:37 -0800

Too much of the 'camp,' sensibility is predicated on feeling superior to what you're viewing, whether through contempt or condescension, and that seems to a lousy way to veiw the world. I grew up in a Midwestern American suburb, and I've contributed to the gentrification of more than one neighborhood. But (unlike some people in this thread) I'm not filling Metafilter with vitriolic comments.

By: jonmc

jonmc — Thu, 22 Jun 2006 13:03:50 -0800

I grew up in a Midwestern American suburb, and I've contributed to the gentrification of more than one neighborhood. But (unlike some people in this thread) I'm not filling Metafilter with vitriolic comments. What do you want, a medal? This is the main thing that annoys people about hipsters, the fact that they're cluelass as to why people might have legitamite reasons to resent them.

By: sonofsamiam

sonofsamiam — Thu, 22 Jun 2006 13:05:56 -0800

Visita Interiora Terrae Rectificando Invenies Occultum Lapidem

By: xod

xod — Thu, 22 Jun 2006 13:09:27 -0800

Well, maybe for him who understandth it.

By: Human Flesh

Human Flesh — Thu, 22 Jun 2006 13:12:58 -0800

I disagree. Hating hipsters is a hipster pastime. It's a perfect way to be hipper than thou. No self-respecting hipster would admit to being a hipster.

By: jonmc

jonmc — Thu, 22 Jun 2006 13:17:19 -0800

Actually, I was annoyed by these people even before I knew they were called 'hipsters.' I just called them art-farts or foo-foos or club trash instead. But of course you're argument is self-sealing: anyone who finds hipsters annoying is a hipster. My guess is that you're too young to get what me, the wino, and others are getting at.

By: Human Flesh

Human Flesh — Thu, 22 Jun 2006 13:27:09 -0800

But of course you're argument is self-sealing: anyone who finds hipsters annoying is a hipster. That's not my argument. I just wanted to point out how bitter some of you player haters sound.

By: jonmc

jonmc — Thu, 22 Jun 2006 13:30:13 -0800

player haters? I don't hate you, I just see right through you. After reviewing some of those pix..well, if that's how hipsters spend their time, well I'm happy to not be among them, and I can guarantee that the feeling is probably mutual.

By: Divine_Wino

Divine_Wino — Thu, 22 Jun 2006 13:30:33 -0800

Nobody but a player hater would ever call anyone else a player hater.

By: Human Flesh

Human Flesh — Thu, 22 Jun 2006 13:32:59 -0800

Hipsters are just a subset of hipster haters.

By: jonmc

jonmc — Thu, 22 Jun 2006 13:33:39 -0800

You still haven't gotten over not getting picked for kickball back in school, have you?

By: Divine_Wino

Divine_Wino — Thu, 22 Jun 2006 13:34:19 -0800

Hup hup, now take off that plastic jacket before I have you arrested for attempted leather.

By: jonmc

jonmc — Thu, 22 Jun 2006 13:35:59 -0800

and put down that PBR before you hurt yourself.

By: Divine_Wino

Divine_Wino — Thu, 22 Jun 2006 13:39:21 -0800

Now Jon, the PBR fetishising has had unexpected benefits for those of us on a budget. Also it allows me to scare the dog with my farts.

By: sonofsamiam

sonofsamiam — Thu, 22 Jun 2006 13:40:13 -0800

Natty Light > PBR PBR is too sweet.

By: jonmc

jonmc — Thu, 22 Jun 2006 13:41:38 -0800

True enough, Wino, but these schnooks don't realize that Schlitz is just as cheap and better beer. Or maybe they don't actually like beer, except ironically. Mmm, beer. (you were missed last night at the bar, dude).

By: Human Flesh

Human Flesh — Thu, 22 Jun 2006 13:48:43 -0800

Schlitz is popular among Chicago hipsters.

By: sciurus

sciurus — Thu, 22 Jun 2006 13:48:47 -0800

Did someone say beer?

By: jonmc

jonmc — Thu, 22 Jun 2006 13:49:45 -0800

Schlitz is popular among Chicago hipsters. and cheap drunks.

By: xod

xod — Thu, 22 Jun 2006 14:09:36 -0800

Walt Whitman was a hipster - if you know what I mean.

By: Divine_Wino

Divine_Wino — Thu, 22 Jun 2006 14:10:54 -0800

Natty Light > PBR PBR is too sweet. Yes. Natty Boh is hard to get though, round here.

By: econous

econous — Thu, 22 Jun 2006 14:19:37 -0800

I have a large collection of animated gif images, it seems unfair to both mother and I, that I am not a hip-tard. I say 'not yet mother, but think of the property values'. Old people are really with it.

By: xod

xod — Thu, 22 Jun 2006 14:55:52 -0800

And I sometimes worry that I might be inscrutable.

By: Sparx

Sparx — Thu, 22 Jun 2006 15:10:11 -0800

Human Flesh said: I'm a hipster... ...No self-respecting hipster would admit to being a hipster This must be some of that fabled hipster irony I hear so much about. jonmc said: Too much of the 'camp,' sensibility is predicated on feeling superior to what you're viewing, whether through contempt or condescension, and that seems to a lousy way to veiw the world... ...people might have legitamite reasons to resent them This must be some of that fabled blue collar irony I hear so much about.

By: Skygazer

Skygazer — Thu, 22 Jun 2006 15:32:56 -0800

Human Flesh: That's not my argument. I just wanted to point out how bitter some of you player haters sound. I can explain hipsterism and the attendant gentrification in one word: Pussy. Towit: The smart hot creative girls (SHC's) moved to Williamsburg back in like 1994 to be with the smart cute creative (SCC's) guys. As a glut of SHC'S began to form around 1999 or so the Fratboy dumb creative-wannabes (FDCW's) who used to kick the shit out of the SCC guys in HS and College came out en mass w/trucker hats to be around the SHC girls, but got mixed up and instead met up the Sorority-Sex-and-the-City-type-who-like-abuse (SSATCTWLA) women who love them. Therefore if the SHC'S women in Williamsburg were able to identify the DCW's quicker and and stay with the SCC's, and the SSATCTWLA's got their talons into the FDCW's quicker and made them marry and impregnate them and move back to Ohio, then maybe the goddamn rents would go back down a bit and we could stop this heart attack inducing fucked up gentrification.

By: Human Flesh

Human Flesh — Thu, 22 Jun 2006 15:44:04 -0800

Do you really think that the process of gentrification can be stopped?

By: Divine_Wino

Divine_Wino — Thu, 22 Jun 2006 15:50:05 -0800

Dude, what is it exactly that you are defending?

By: xod

xod — Thu, 22 Jun 2006 15:50:09 -0800

The second law of thermodynamics says yes.

By: loquacious

loquacious — Thu, 22 Jun 2006 16:06:12 -0800

Did you really just say "player hater"? You did, didn't you?

By: Human Flesh

Human Flesh — Thu, 22 Jun 2006 16:11:59 -0800

Clever Xod. I meant stopped in our lifetime. Divine_Wino, I'm not defending anyone in particular. I just wanted to serve as a voice that countervails some of the bellyaching that pollutes this message board?

By: Divine_Wino

Divine_Wino — Thu, 22 Jun 2006 16:21:37 -0800

I defy you to point out where I was bellyaching, (good word, btw). I think there are some taxonomy problems here.

By: Liquidwolf

Liquidwolf — Thu, 22 Jun 2006 16:27:21 -0800

I cant stand that website, Ive seen it before. Full of desperate shitheads on coke.

By: Human Flesh

Human Flesh — Thu, 22 Jun 2006 16:33:15 -0800

Divine_Wino: The north side is a (perhaps shark jumping) epicenter of these pretty vacant things. They are truely useless people. When I say I find them useless it's because they DON'T DO ANYTHING.

By: Divine_Wino

Divine_Wino — Thu, 22 Jun 2006 16:41:03 -0800

Not bellyaching, bellyaching is complaining about one's unavoidable lot, a bunch of twee dopers wasting daddy's money and diluting the once charming qualities of this multifaceted city are not my unavoidable lot. Sorry friend. There are things in this world that are genuinely worthy of contempt, just because that includes almost everything in the world on metafilter doesn't mean hipsters (especially the PRETTY VACANT THINGS on lastnightsparty) aren't deserving of a little shade in the grander scale of things.

By: mrgrimm

mrgrimm — Thu, 22 Jun 2006 17:30:40 -0800

Iron Maiden doth rock, and there's nothing funny about them. Really? Nothing? ;) Natty Light > PBR Old Milwaukee > Natural Light Ice > Natural Light > PBR > American > Falls City > Sterling > Weidemann > Burgie's.

By: Divine_Wino

Divine_Wino — Thu, 22 Jun 2006 17:32:52 -0800

Old Milwaukee > Natural Light Ice > Natural Light > PBR > American > Falls City > Sterling > Weidemann > Burgie's >Hamm's.

By: mrgrimm

mrgrimm — Thu, 22 Jun 2006 17:33:22 -0800

I'm with Human Flesh, btw, although I would hate going to any of those parties. *Most* people don't *do* anything. Let them have their fun. I'll reserve my bitter hatred for those profiting from death and misery (not that all of us don't to some degree). It's like anything else.

By: mrgrimm

mrgrimm — Thu, 22 Jun 2006 17:34:25 -0800

omg hamm's. ick.

By: muddgirl

muddgirl — Thu, 22 Jun 2006 17:34:33 -0800

Look, I'm gonna side with D_W and j-to-the-m-to-the-c here (no surprise, really). I don't HATE anything - I've just seen it all before, and I'm probably not that much older than you. It's hard to look at anything like "Hipsterism" and say it's not just a commercial phenomenon, especially when a lot of the kids involved spend more money on clothes and hair and makeup than I do on my rent payment each month! Look, that shit is important to them, fine, but something that pisses a bunch of us off is that they pretend it's NOT important, that they're NOT just a bunch of chavs (or jocks or chess geeks) running around with their blatantly obvious sexual/social signals of status. Also, they have more money and more exposure than the rest of us.

By: xod

xod — Thu, 22 Jun 2006 18:13:12 -0800

Press close, bare-bosomed Night! Press close, magnetic, nourishing Night! Night of south winds! Night of the large, few stars! Still, nodding Night! Mad, naked, Summer Night!

By: jonmc

jonmc — Thu, 22 Jun 2006 18:54:00 -0800

Iron Maiden doth rock, and there's nothing funny about them. Really? Nothing? ;) Well, Eddie the mascot and Nicko McBrain's facial features are good for a chuckle, but I think you know where I'm going.

By: supercrayon

supercrayon — Thu, 22 Jun 2006 19:17:12 -0800

Having spent time as both a faux-hipster and a faux-nerd, I will say that being a faux-nerd is much more fun. Fun for me anyways. Why? Because I found that being a hipster, even a faux one, is so fucking *meta*. Everything has to function and be considered on multiple levels, the ten-thousand layers of circle-jerk coolness. Being a nerd on the other hand, even a faux one, I find to be so fucking *fun* because it actually allows for sincere appreciation of things, even if the things being appreciated arent really to my taste (no I dont really want to join your game of Call of Cthulu, but thanks for asking!), and allows me to be unabashadly appreciative of the things I like that arent to other people's taste (you dont want to watch this marathon of Nightmare on Elmstreet with me? But it's so cool!), and there's no thinking about it really, just a bunch of people with questionable social skills enjoying things and mouth breathing and having a good time. In summation, paraguay is a land of contrast, thank you.

By: jonmc

jonmc — Thu, 22 Jun 2006 19:29:02 -0800

Having spent time as both a faux-hipster and a faux-nerd, I will say that being a faux-nerd is much more fun. I prefer just being a slob. Takes less effort. Well, when you're as handsome as me, it takes some effort, but don't tell anyone.

By: supercrayon

supercrayon — Thu, 22 Jun 2006 19:38:15 -0800

I admire your dedication, you adonis among slobs you. All those times there was someone waiting outside your door for you with a sign that said "#1 FanSlobbinTastic!!!!", oh that wasnt just some random masked weirdo. That was all me.

By: jonmc

jonmc — Thu, 22 Jun 2006 19:41:44 -0800

Well, I wasn't startled or anything. This is new york city, I see masked weirdos all the time.

By: supercrayon

supercrayon — Thu, 22 Jun 2006 19:45:48 -0800

True, plus there's always this friggin crowd outside your door, what's up with that? I know we never agreed to be exclusive or anything, but when I first started wearing this mask and holding this sign I didnt suspect you were, like, a collecter.

By: ghastlyfop

ghastlyfop — Thu, 22 Jun 2006 20:03:31 -0800

I, for one, have always enjoyed partying with attractive, naked girls.

By: jason's_planet

jason's_planet — Thu, 22 Jun 2006 22:53:30 -0800

(Yawn) These parties are sooooo lame. Here at Casa Jason, we like to celebrate in style! I tell you, nothing, but nothing, says "par-tay" like a case of Old Milwaukee and a session with www.NaughtyMidgetMILFs.com Good times!

By: anjamu

anjamu — Thu, 22 Jun 2006 23:06:26 -0800

It always cracks me up that PBR and Schlitz are faux-chic these days. I grew up in Milwaukee, where every other bar has a PBR/Schlitz/Blatz (yes, Blatz) sign up and there's no irony whatsoever.

By: Human Flesh

Human Flesh — Fri, 23 Jun 2006 00:24:23 -0800

It's hard to look at anything like "Hipsterism" and say it's not just a commercial phenomenon, especially when a lot of the kids involved spend more money on clothes and hair and makeup than I do on my rent payment each month! Who said hipster culture is not a commercial phenomenon? Hipsters, like many subcultures, are identified by their habits of consumption. However, it doesn't take a six-figure salary to shop at The Salvation Army and follow the local music scene. Hipsters are known to colonize rough or neglected areas. The ensuing gentrification seems to have something to do with the hard-on that urban developers have for artsy white kids. Look, that shit is important to them, fine, but something that pisses a bunch of us off is that they pretend it's NOT important, that they're NOT just a bunch of chavs (or jocks or chess geeks) running around with their blatantly obvious sexual/social signals of status. I guess the idea of being fashionably unfashionable strikes you as hypocritical. It could be that the signals that the indie kids are sending are meant for someone other than you. Also, they have more money and more exposure than the rest of us. Ah, this is what I was digging for: a validation of my suspicion that some of the scorn was at least partially rooted in envy.

By: horsewithnoname

horsewithnoname — Fri, 23 Jun 2006 06:00:19 -0800

Hipster envy is so September Tenth.

By: jonmc

jonmc — Fri, 23 Jun 2006 06:19:21 -0800

Ah, this is what I was digging for: a validation of my suspicion that some of the scorn was at least partially rooted in envy. But it isn't so much envy as righteous resentment of a bunch of priviliged idlers usurping them from their neighborhoods, so if you take comfort from that, well, good luck with that.

By: PinkStainlessTail

PinkStainlessTail — Fri, 23 Jun 2006 06:29:22 -0800

Old Milwaukee > Natural Light Ice > Natural Light > PBR > American > Falls City > Sterling > Weidemann > Burgie's >Hamm's > Bear Whiz

By: jonmc

jonmc — Fri, 23 Jun 2006 06:30:39 -0800

Old Milwaukee > Natural Light Ice > Natural Light > PBR > American > Falls City > Sterling > Weidemann > Burgie's >Hamm's > Bear Whiz>Crazy Horse

By: Skygazer

Skygazer — Fri, 23 Jun 2006 07:16:34 -0800

Old Milwaukee > Natural Light Ice > Natural Light > PBR > American > Falls City > Sterling > Weidemann > Burgie's >Hamm's > Bear Whiz>Crazy Horse>Urine

By: MrMoonPie

MrMoonPie — Fri, 23 Jun 2006 10:33:21 -0800

> Red, White, and Blue > Peils > Cook's, which is to this day the only non-fruity-flavored beer I've ever poured out.

By: xod

xod — Fri, 23 Jun 2006 11:26:12 -0800

> "My suffering is authentic enough but it has a kind of low-grade concrete-block quality."

By: Fezboy!

Fezboy! — Fri, 23 Jun 2006 11:36:10 -0800

Old Milwaukee > Natural Light Ice > Natural Light > PBR > American > Falls City > Sterling > Weidemann > Burgie's >Hamm's > Bear Whiz>Crazy Horse> Falstaff > Old Milwaukee

By: sonofsamiam

sonofsamiam — Fri, 23 Jun 2006 11:36:34 -0800

Augh! Beer intransitivity!

By: dammitjim

dammitjim — Fri, 23 Jun 2006 11:57:14 -0800

Mmm. Crazy Horse. Chief of the "enriched" beers. Now that was a too-sweet beverage. Its cousin, James Bowie, though, was a fine brew. As good a brew as will typically come in a 40oz. bottle. Good for walking down the sidewalk on Madison Avenue with, in a brown paper bag, at 8:30 am on a Wednesday, after working the graveyard shift. Back when you could reliably count on getting away with that. Wait, does that make me a hipster? Or an aging hipster? Hold on... I think I don't care.

By: brianvan

brianvan — Sat, 24 Jun 2006 00:46:44 -0800

This whole thread makes me cringe. NYC party photographer here, and I take many pics at parties myself. My style does indeed ape the stuff on lastnightsparty.com, except I attend events that have substantially less cocaine, substantially smarter people, and substantially less ridiculous attire. I don't hold this against Merlin at all, I think his work rocks. I think he gets shots that are amazing, and that he finds himself in situations (ex: as a stranger, in people's apartments, 5am on a Saturday) that are incredible. I can attest to how difficult it is to get pictures like this. He's pretty dedicated. I also don't envy his attendance to all these parties, because I've been to a bunch of them and they suck hard. I can't enjoy myself without quaffing 5 free-liquor vodka tonics, and that's not really fun now, is it? There's no moral high ground here, he's just another photographer with a different social circle. Hipsters though, in general, are a clear sign of the rot of our society. They're hardly defendable. They're a caricature. Always have been. People who follow "cool" for a living have never been admired for bringing cool to the masses - they've been reviled for being vapid, nasty, and ultimately useless. They bathe in their own celebrity and attention (if they bathe at all). Andy Warhol was right about the 15 minutes thing: The Internet, and especially blogs and MySpace, have made the churn cycle even more nauseating and dizzying, as now someone's popular for an hour each afternoon before the whole hipster-sphere moves onto the next shiny new irony-of-the-day. It's unnerving: If I try to talk about something a week old, I'll get called on it. I would personally be sick of having to change my fundamental self - nevermind my wardrobe - every couple of weeks. But it's not that it's just not for me. I think these people are miserable, they're irresponsible, and they're bad for all of us. My friends and I are hipsters ourselves in a loose sense - coolhunters by night, but we dress normal and have jobs by day - but we're more like yuppies who are aware of fresh culture (not flattering, but I'll take it). But the real hipsters are ill-tempered, immature people who are a bad influence. Drugs are not cool. Admiring overpriced (and ostentatious) art is not cool. Shitty music is not cool. Pissing on other people's interests (and front stoops) is not cool. Being 19, drinking in a club, and vomiting on yourself is not cool. But because they have money, and because they've been spending it in increasingly absurd ways, the consumer markets and the media are handing everything to them. There are a lot of fat merchandising managers and middle-aged network execs who are more than glad to slap the hipster flag on the wall and try to sell it (to hipsters or advertisers) for 10x its actual value. And, you know, if all these immature little snots decided to sober up for a day and apply themselves to something that was real and meaningful, all their awful, meaningless stuff would disintegrate instantaneously. If that happened, the world just might be a better place. Or, at the very least, we wouldn't have a bunch of sullen brain-rotted tards sullying up every attempt for the rest of us to try to connect with something that was truly, really "cool". The irony about hipsters is that they're not hip at all. You can't bear any meaningful fruit to the world if you do nothing but party, sneer, and puke. No amount of spandex will change that. The real "hipsters" are mostly terribly ugly people sitting at home, hammering away at their personal creative projects with love and determination, keeping the momentum going, going to bed by 11, staying pretty far away from anyone under the age of 25. The people who REALLY have any capacity for developing ideas and introducing lasting trends are mostly over the age of 35, and are widely known for their ruthless work ethic (if not for their ruthless demeanors). These are people who are anti-cool for the hipsters, but are admired by just about every true (sober) enthusiast in their respective professions. And that's something that's right about the world. I'd like to see more of it...

By: id

id — Wed, 28 Jun 2006 14:32:32 -0800

Very well said. Bravo, brianvan. Bravo.