Comments on: "the destinies of ... the Israeli people and the Palestinian people are inextricably linked"

"the destinies of ... the Israeli people and the Palestinian people are inextricably linked"

orthogonality — Mon, 14 Jan 2008 01:03:24 -0800

Daniel Barenboim: pianist, conductor, Israeli, peacemaker, and now Palestinian. Predictably, some will add to that list, "traitor."

By: orthogonality

orthogonality — Mon, 14 Jan 2008 01:06:07 -0800

Barenboim also slammed President Bush, referring to Bush's call to end "the occupation" by commenting:

"Now even not very intelligent people are saying that the occupation has to be stopped," Barenboim said.

By: terrortubby

terrortubby — Mon, 14 Jan 2008 01:51:41 -0800

It's a symbol, in a region that likes it's symbols. A brilliant pr move on the part of the Palestinians, good on them. I'm not so thrilled by the idea of citizenship granted based on political views, though I suppose in this case it's like an honorary doctorate, not too significant in a practical sense, and I don't suppose he will use at airports, though he could possibly use it to enter territories where Israelis are barred from entry.

By: Grrlscout

Grrlscout — Mon, 14 Jan 2008 02:28:15 -0800

I think he's a brave man. What's up with the vitriol against Barenboim on that blog linked to in the OP? He's been called a traitor since he dared to conduct Wagner years ago. There's no mention in the article of him giving up Israeli citizenship, only that he accepted a Palestinian passport. Not exactly like he called for Jihad... Too bad that there are so many people whose livelihoods and positions of influence in the middle east depend on shrieking hate at anyone who dares to say that both Israelis and Palestinians have a right to a state and peaceful coexistence.

By: vivelame

vivelame — Mon, 14 Jan 2008 02:38:47 -0800

Aah, watch out, he'll soon be murdered by some Israeli Patriot(tm). I'd love to have the opportunity to shake his hand..

By: mike3k

mike3k — Mon, 14 Jan 2008 02:58:37 -0800

He's a great man. He earned my respect.

By: zouhair

zouhair — Mon, 14 Jan 2008 04:25:55 -0800

Tip of the hat

By: micayetoca

micayetoca — Mon, 14 Jan 2008 05:37:22 -0800

You forgot to add "Argentinian" to his list of controversial nationalities. But all jokes aside, he is horrendously talented. I once turned on the TV and caught one of his masterclasses by accident and just couldn't stop watching. If anyone can get that series and watch it, I guarantee you'll love every minute of it. And I think it's quite remarkable that he uses his reputation to knock down old taboos. He is a great man, and this is a great FPP.

By: Pallas Athena

Pallas Athena — Mon, 14 Jan 2008 05:52:29 -0800

Seconding the Barenboim love. Among his other projects, in the summers he conducts the West-Eastern Divan Orchestra, which Barenboim and Edward Said founded so that young Israeli and Arab musicians could learn from working together.

By: pjdoland

pjdoland — Mon, 14 Jan 2008 06:28:23 -0800

Barenboim really seems to go out of his way to invite controversy. Back in July of 2001 he conducted Richard Wagner's "Overture to Tristan und Isolde" as an unprogrammed encore while in Israel. It didn't go over well, for obvious reasons.

By: The Great Big Mulp

The Great Big Mulp — Mon, 14 Jan 2008 06:39:23 -0800

In December of '06 the department for which I very occasionally (generally just hanging posters for events, running films, or hooking up printers) work at Brown University managed to get the West-Eastern Divan Orchestra to play for free in Providence, RI. Since I needed some work, I was selected to be the orchestra's emergency contact throughout their stay here, living with them in the hotel, going with them to all the rehearsals, etc. That said, I only very briefly met Barenboim, as the orchestra manager handled most of his needs, though I could see from watching all of their rehearsals that he is a ruthless perfectionist when it comes to conducting. I did have the opportunity for a few conversations with the late Edward Said's wife Miriam, who struck me as a very pleasant, down-to-earth, and brilliant woman.

By: flapjax at midnite

flapjax at midnite — Mon, 14 Jan 2008 07:05:09 -0800

"I believe that the destinies of ... the Israeli people and the Palestinian people are inextricably linked," Barenboim said. "We are blessed - or cursed - to live with each other. And I prefer the first." The man's got class.

By: mi

mi — Mon, 14 Jan 2008 07:13:28 -0800

I love him, whether he conducts, plays Ginastera or Well-Tempered Piano, holds masterclasses, or talks to Edward Said. Thanks for the links.

By: bassjump

bassjump — Mon, 14 Jan 2008 07:29:33 -0800

He really is a fascinating guy that I've admired for years. He uses his talent in such fascinating ways. That is all.

By: blacklite

blacklite — Mon, 14 Jan 2008 08:24:43 -0800

Israel gets worked up over someone playing Wagner? Seriously?

By: ob

ob — Mon, 14 Jan 2008 09:15:04 -0800

I've always admired Barenboim both as a musician and as a human being. It's interesting reading this after looking at the N.I. murals thread. Of course this is symbolic but it is in many ways a huge gesture.

By: Pastabagel

Pastabagel — Mon, 14 Jan 2008 11:10:32 -0800

Back in July of 2001 he conducted Richard Wagner's "Overture to Tristan und Isolde" as an unprogrammed encore while in Israel. It didn't go over well, for obvious reasons. posted by pjdoland at 9:28 AM on January 14 Is this a joke? Do jews in Israel find Wagner offensive? Schoenberg cited Wagner as a profound influence and he was Jewish. If this is true, it's the height of ignorance.

By: Salamandrous

Salamandrous — Mon, 14 Jan 2008 12:19:07 -0800

Pastabagel, blacklite: As far as I know, from hearing from friends and family, many holocaust survivors strongly associate Wagner with their concentration camp experiences - it's even triggering for them; Hitler loved his music and had it played in the camps. It's considered very insensitive to play Wagner where there may be survivors - part of why Jewish weddings don't use the wedding march song that's so famous. There are a lot of Holocaust survivors in Israel. I'm sorry you think that's ignorant. I think it's pretty ignorant of you to think that just because some Jews (including famous musicians) admire Wagner's music, that these experiences and memories shouldn't matter to these survivors and their children.

By: gesamtkunstwerk

gesamtkunstwerk — Mon, 14 Jan 2008 15:29:36 -0800

The wedding march you refer to is by Mendelssohn. He was Jewish by birth, but converted. I admire Jews who can appreciate Wagner. Wagner was instrumental in the forging of a nationalist myth that contained a lot of dangerous ideas, and yes, he did say anti-Semitic things. But his music is not necessarily anti-Semitic. Besides, ridding the world of the work of anti-Semites like Dostoevsky, Alexandr Pushkin, Thomas Edison and Henry Ford, would be self-defeating. Incidentally, there was a campaign against Mendelssohn's music in the third Reich, too. Personally, I'm not Jewish, so I don't want to say "shame on you for not judging Wagner on his work, rather than his most infamous fans", but I think erasing the work of anyone based on ideology is a shame and a waste.

By: gesamtkunstwerk

gesamtkunstwerk — Mon, 14 Jan 2008 15:32:29 -0800

P.S. Would like to judge Wagner on his merits, but it's way beyond me. I almost hanged myself sitting through the Meisterzinger.

By: flapjax at midnite

flapjax at midnite — Mon, 14 Jan 2008 15:42:20 -0800

I almost hanged myself sitting through the Meisterzinger. And you know, it's really hard to hang yourself while sitting. I tried it once and it didn't go well at all.

By: gesamtkunstwerk

gesamtkunstwerk — Mon, 14 Jan 2008 15:44:17 -0800

There was a tempting balcony and drapes. It would have been so theatrical, but I didn't want anyone thinking I went all young Werther.

By: Salamandrous

Salamandrous — Mon, 14 Jan 2008 21:20:21 -0800

gesamtkunstwerk: Thanks for the info about the wedding march, I'll have to figure out why I thought that. I'm pretty sure I didn't suggest ridding the world of work produced by anti-semites! I'm pretty sure no one else has either. And you know what, I'm pretty confident that even survivors who find his music triggering could still 'judge' it on its artistic merits. That doesn't mean they have to like listening to it. Also, as much as we can judge a produced work apart from the character of its creator, as long as we remember the creator's name and person, I think we have an obligation to remember the bad along with the good. Otherwise it makes it seem that if someone invents something really cool, it doesn't really matter that they think some people are inferior to others.

By: Ljubljana

Ljubljana — Tue, 15 Jan 2008 08:26:34 -0800

Salamandrous: You were right. Wagner is behind the famous "Bridal Chorus" (Here Comes the Bride) while Mendelssohn wrote the "Wedding March."