Comments on: Forgiving Buckner

Forgiving Buckner

Corduroy — Tue, 08 Apr 2008 19:44:57 -0800

22 years after letting a ball roll through his legs in extra innings to lose game six of the 1986 World Series, Bill Buckner returned to Fenway Park to throw out the ceremonial first pitch on Opening Day. Here's a post on the Curse of the Bambino and the 2004 World Series

The world has certainly not forgotten about Buckner. And as a bonus, here's an RBI Baseball reenactment of the final inning of game six, as well as a review of an album called Forgiving Buckner. Scroll down a little more than halfway.

By: waitingtoderail

waitingtoderail — Tue, 08 Apr 2008 19:54:36 -0800

Bob Stanley (and John McNamara) was the goat of that game, not Buckner.

By: ericb

ericb — Tue, 08 Apr 2008 19:58:21 -0800

An emotional day for Bill Buckner.

By: ericb

ericb — Tue, 08 Apr 2008 20:01:18 -0800

Err --- that would be a repeat of your "Buckner" link. Sorry, I just read it moments ago online at the Boston Globe. On the evening news (WCVB) this evening they said that Buckner moved from Andover, MA to Boise, Idaho due to the relentless attention from the media. He apparently refused the offer to pitch tonight, but relented three-weeks ago. As theGlobe link ... and evening television news reports indicate ... he appreciated the fans' reception of him this afternoon.

By: blacklite

blacklite — Tue, 08 Apr 2008 20:02:20 -0800

If all baseball was played in RBI Baseball, I would watch the world series every year. That was awesome.

By: not_on_display

not_on_display — Tue, 08 Apr 2008 20:03:34 -0800

I've been a Sox fan since before I can remember. I forgave Buckner soon afterward because I felt so bad for him. It's not fun to be a sports fan in Boston a lot of the time, and he was like our Yoko Ono for a long time. I'm so glad that's over. [not yoko-ono-ist] This post is great. Makes a great bookend to yesterday's Major Little League post.

By: XQUZYPHYR

XQUZYPHYR — Tue, 08 Apr 2008 20:13:43 -0800

Oh god. There is now crying in baseball.

By: Melismata

Melismata — Tue, 08 Apr 2008 20:15:14 -0800

Actually it was mostly Calvin Schiraldi. Whatever happened to him, anyway?

By: skepticallypleased

skepticallypleased — Tue, 08 Apr 2008 20:38:07 -0800

The sequence of events WAS NOT absolutely WAS NOT: Billy picks up the ball, gets out, game over, Sox win the series. It was already tied by the moment he committed the error. This one barely seems like FP material to me, but it's even worse to be on front because it is factually wrong.

By: skepticallypleased

skepticallypleased — Tue, 08 Apr 2008 20:39:02 -0800

Seriously, this poor guy should have got a break LONG AGO.

By: LeLiLo

LeLiLo — Tue, 08 Apr 2008 20:44:35 -0800

Bob Stanley (and John McNamara) was the goat of that game, not Buckner. Yeah, as that wonderful RBI Baseball replay reminds us, an awful lot went on in that inning before the last pitch. (And how great to hear Vin Scully calling a game again.) Why was a crippled, almost-40-year-old playing defense in the late innings anyway? (Maybe because, as the announcer said this afternoon, the Sox never would have won the pennant in the first place that year without Buckner. (from the Wiki: He hit 8 home runs that September, with 22 RBIs and a .340 average, missing only three games. He drove in over 100 runs for the season. In game 5 of the Championship Series when the Red Sox faced elimination, he singled to start their ninth inning rally capped off by Dave Henderson's famous home run.) It always amazes me that people will take an entire 20+-year career — Buckner led the National League in batting average in 1980, hit .289 lifetime with over 1200 RBIs and 2700 hits, led the league in singles, led the league twice in doubles, eight different years first or second in fewest strikeouts per at bats — and mention only one fluke ground ball that he misplayed. No matter what, it must be amazing to stand alone in the middle of a field listening to tens of thousands of people cheering for you. Like the famous story when Marilyn Monroe came back from entertaining the troops in Korea and said to her husband: "Oh Joe, you've never heard such cheering," and DiMaggio said, "Yes, I think I have."

By: Cyrano

Cyrano — Tue, 08 Apr 2008 20:59:04 -0800

I'm glad Buckner got to have that moment. To all of you Boston fans who wouldn't have given it to him before 2004, you're a bunch of cocks.

By: paddysat

paddysat — Tue, 08 Apr 2008 21:30:26 -0800

I am not a huge follower of baseball but I could talk about it if I had too. I must say that I thought that was great. I am trying to imagine what it felt like for him, listening to the announcer for his cue, waiting to walk out ALL THE FRICKIN' WAY TO THE MOUND FROM CENTER FIELD, after so many years of people not letting him forget about that one error, wondering what kind of reception he would get. Man...that is terrifying. Even when the announcer was going through the introduction I was literally ready to switch it off just in case it turned ugly. But it didn't. Thanks for the post, Corduroy!

By: justgary

justgary — Tue, 08 Apr 2008 21:54:46 -0800

Anyone who forgave buckner either doesn't understand the game of baseball or were looking for a scapegoat. His error was merely the period on a whole inning of 'how to lose a game when it should be in the bag'. There was nothing to forgive. To all of you Boston fans who wouldn't have given it to him before 2004, you're a bunch of cocks. posted by Cyrano Even when the announcer was going through the introduction I was literally ready to switch it off just in case it turned ugly. posted by paddysat Buckner returned to Boston for his last season and received a standing ovation. These comments are not based in reality. The media playing the error over and over again does not equal the majority of boston fans and their feelings towards buckner.

By: gompa

gompa — Tue, 08 Apr 2008 22:01:29 -0800

Damn, that RBI Baseball reenactment is just stunning. I can't imagine how much time it must've taken, and the thing is once the novelty wears off, it winds up amplifying somehow just how great a play-by-play man Vin Scully was. Back in Little League, my pal Jason Wilson used to holler "there goes Billy Bucks on those bad wheels!" damn near every time he chased down a grounder or pop fly in practice. He sometimes punctuated it with a pratfall. I haven't even thought of the guy's name (Jason Wilson's, I mean) in twenty years. Nicely done, Corduroy. Incidentally, why oh why do sports venues now feel compelled to provide Bruckheimer-style soundtracks for every goddamn moment on the field? That ceremonial-pitch clip might've seemed downright elegant - I mean Bobby Orr's there, for crissake! - if not for the chorus-of-angels pablum blaring in the background . . .

By: LobsterMitten

LobsterMitten — Tue, 08 Apr 2008 22:13:36 -0800

Love this.

By: puke & cry

puke & cry — Tue, 08 Apr 2008 22:15:36 -0800

The only other post with the BillBuckner tag is mine from a couple years ago. That was kind of a gimmick post though.

By: paddysat

paddysat — Tue, 08 Apr 2008 22:27:20 -0800

Even when the announcer was going through the introduction I was literally ready to switch it off just in case it turned ugly. posted by paddysat Buckner returned to Boston for his last season and received a standing ovation. These comments are not based in reality. The media playing the error over and over again does not equal the majority of boston fans and their feelings towards buckner. No, the comment is based in reality because that is exactly how I felt. But I agree with you about the media. Hence my feeling.

By: Deep Dish

Deep Dish — Tue, 08 Apr 2008 22:54:34 -0800

It's not fun to be a sports fan in Boston a lot of the time I am a Blue Jays fan, and watching the Yanks and Sox play the unbalanced schedule is not fun. The Yanks had a bigger payroll than my fantasy team least year. Baseball is really broken right now...

By: allkindsoftime

allkindsoftime — Wed, 09 Apr 2008 00:04:51 -0800

Cool post. When I was about the age most boys start collecting baseball cards, one of my best friends from church was John Buckner, son of Mike, Bill's brother. It was the late 80's by that point, so I never saw Bill when he was with the sox, but every time the Royals came to Oakland to play, my Dad and Mike would take us down to see the game, and hang out with Bill afterwards. He was one of those genuinely nice guys, it sounds kind of trite to say it of a baseball player, but even as a kid I can remember thinking how far he went out of his way to be kind to his fans and give them the time of day, more so than most of his teammates, at any rate. With as much baseball I see these days, I can still say that most don't live up to that level of geniality with their fans. And on top of that, he was an all-around decent player who really only had the misfortune of making an error (just like all players make, sooner or later) at an incredibly inopportune moment. If there were ever a player that deserved more forgiveness than Bill, I can't think of one. Mike committed suicide a few years after that, John and I kind of grew apart as we got older, and I never saw Bill again. But I still have a signed ball and fond memories of watching games from seats my family never would have been able to afford. Thanks Bill.

By: matteo

matteo — Wed, 09 Apr 2008 04:50:03 -0800

22 years after letting a ball roll through his legs in extra innings to lose game six of the 1986 World Series, it didn't happen like that. and this from someone who essentially spent the Summer of '86 at Fenway. anyway, weak post aside, and nevermind the fact that Buckner was injured and played anyway, the OMFGBUCKNERDROPPEDIT thing is as lame as the OMFGTEHCURSEOFTEHBAMBINO; it's post-facto bullshit dreamed up essentially by the media looking for an easy target, however unfair, and a hook for countless incorrect stories. such as this post. what really counts is that, in any sport, sometimes there's a mix of reasons -- fatigue, injuries, simply losing one's shit when things start going bad too fast, sheer bad luck -- why in sports you reach a tipping point and conventional wisdom vanishes, and very big upsets happen. the line between winning and losing in pro sports is much much thinner than most people like to think, and so many factors can change things; it sucks for those who lose, but it happens quite a bit.

By: Corduroy

Corduroy — Wed, 09 Apr 2008 04:55:53 -0800

I know there is more to the inning than Bill Buckner. The point is that he got blamed for it. Period.

By: puckupdate

puckupdate — Wed, 09 Apr 2008 04:56:41 -0800

As a Mets fan, I had a tortured relationship with Buckner. The worst day of his life (or at least one of them) made for the (then) best day of mine. I was at game six, so watching the Mets come back was even more amazing. Over the years, I heard Buckner was totally OK with his career and wasn't super depressed over the play. He even signed photos of the error with Mookie Wilson. I loved hearing that because it kind of takes away from the moment to think about your team winning the World Series at the expense of some guy's soul. Also, for anyone saying it was the Curse of the Bambino that forced the error, that's just silly. It was the Curse of the Cubs.

By: Eideteker

Eideteker — Wed, 09 Apr 2008 05:24:03 -0800

Wow, I come to MetaFilter to get AWAY from the rabid sports fans in Boston. Bah.

By: kuujjuarapik

kuujjuarapik — Wed, 09 Apr 2008 05:40:54 -0800

To all of you Boston fans who wouldn't have given it to him before 2004 I don't think you understand Boston fans.

By: popechunk

popechunk — Wed, 09 Apr 2008 06:09:32 -0800

What do Bob Stanley and Billy Graham have in common? They can both get 28,000 people to jump to their feet and shout, "Jesus Christ!"

By: Kirth Gerson

Kirth Gerson — Wed, 09 Apr 2008 06:31:30 -0800

The point is that he got blamed for it. Period. By some people. Semicolon.

By: languagehat

languagehat — Wed, 09 Apr 2008 06:33:13 -0800

As a Mets fan, I had a tortured relationship with Buckner. The worst day of his life (or at least one of them) made for the (then) best day of mine. Same here. I was glad to see this story; he's a classy guy.

By: notmydesk

notmydesk — Wed, 09 Apr 2008 07:39:23 -0800

They missed a great opportunity. He should have been made to catch the first pitch, not throw it. That would have been fucking tense.

By: ibmcginty

ibmcginty — Wed, 09 Apr 2008 08:23:43 -0800

It was great to see Buckner return to the Sox for Opening Day in 1990. This was great too. In that linked article in the Globe, he said he had to forgive not the fans, but the media. (Though I do remember two Sox fans running around Busch Stadium with a sign reading "We Forgive You Bill Buckner" as Game 4 drew to an end in 2004). It's a shame that this guy, who had more hits than Joe DiMaggio and was apparently a class act, is remembered for an error that didn't lose the game. Fred Merkle left the baseball field for good after someone called him "bonehead" when he was coaching at a college or high school, IIRC. Not all undeserving goats get their vindication/forgiveness/standing ovation.

By: ericbop

ericbop — Wed, 09 Apr 2008 09:07:25 -0800

They're also inviting Roseanne Barr back to San Diego this year to sing the National Anthem.

By: notmydesk

notmydesk — Wed, 09 Apr 2008 09:15:13 -0800

Well, no, ibm, the error did lose the game. It's just that making the play wouldn't have won the game because the game was tied due to the shitty pitching. If he'd made the out the Sox would have had another at-bat. But the error lost the game. He did actually miss the grounder. Granted, he shouldn't have been on the field at all in the 9th, but he did miss the grounder. He's not blameless. He's just over-blamed.

By: spinturtle

spinturtle — Wed, 09 Apr 2008 09:29:37 -0800

I was at the game yesterday. I have to say that regardless of the arguments above about who was responsible for the 1986 loss, being part of the heartfelt ovation for Buckner and seeing how visibly it touched him was a very special thing to witness. Maybe it lost something in translation once it hit the airwaves, with all of the commentators flushing it out with backstory and their two cents. Who knows. But it was a good moment for baseball.

By: ibmcginty

ibmcginty — Wed, 09 Apr 2008 09:31:17 -0800

You're right, nmd.

By: justgary

justgary — Wed, 09 Apr 2008 12:06:13 -0800

No, the comment is based in reality because that is exactly how I felt. But I agree with you about the media. Hence my feeling. posted by paddysat The reality in your head, ok. Look, I'm not trying to be a smart ass. If I knew the story only through what the media told me, I'd probably share your view. But the reality is there has never been a chance buckner would be booed at fenway. Ever. Four days after the error at a city hall parade boston fans gave buckner a huge ovation. Well, no, ibm, the error did lose the game. That error ended the game. It didn't lose the game. A game isn't lost or won on one play.

By: Corduroy

Corduroy — Wed, 09 Apr 2008 12:34:29 -0800

Thanks for the link justgary, I had no idea about that.

By: Corduroy

Corduroy — Wed, 09 Apr 2008 12:36:34 -0800

And I apologize for not including more info on the 1986 game in the original post. I just thought this was a nice moment, regardless.

By: paddysat

paddysat — Wed, 09 Apr 2008 13:16:49 -0800

No, the comment is based in reality because that is exactly how I felt. But I agree with you about the media. Hence my feeling. posted by paddysat The reality in your head, ok. Look, I'm not trying to be a smart ass. If I knew the story only through what the media told me, I'd probably share your view. But the reality is there has never been a chance buckner would be booed at fenway. Ever. Thanks, justgary. I apologize if my comment was misread but that was me totally agreeing with your point in that, yes, I was one who bought into the message the media impressed on me. Knowing what I do know I certainly wouldn't have felt that way I did when I watched the video in the first place. Again, apologies and thanks for the good follow-up info.

By: R. Mutt

R. Mutt — Wed, 09 Apr 2008 13:28:33 -0800

I was waiting for them to toss him the ball as he was on the mound waiting. But then I thought ... there is no way in hell that they would do that... what if in his nervousness, he dropped it? Just then a player walked up to Bill, and handed over the ball. Whew.

By: jonmc

jonmc — Wed, 09 Apr 2008 17:25:48 -0800

HAHAHAHAHA! /Mets fan