Comments on: Seventy-five years of Bonnie and Clyde

Seventy-five years of Bonnie and Clyde

Guy_Inamonkeysuit — Thu, 06 Aug 2009 09:34:38 -0800

But have they become tools of the Left? Seventy-five years on, the murderous pair is still provoking comment. This time, from neocons.

By: Tomorrowful

Tomorrowful — Thu, 06 Aug 2009 09:42:34 -0800

the vanities of a generation hell-bent on avoiding an inconvenient war I'm only partway through the article right now, but I have to say.... yes, for all those worried about themselves and their brothers and friends dying for a doomed and pointless cause, I think Vietnam was definitely inconvenient.

By: martens

martens — Thu, 06 Aug 2009 09:43:16 -0800

1. Hollywood exagerates a true story to make a more appealing film. 2. ??? 3. COMMUNISM

By: HumanComplex

HumanComplex — Thu, 06 Aug 2009 09:43:31 -0800

It is of course ridiculous at this late date to run a comparison of the movie and the just-published books and get hung up at the manifold elisions and mendacities of the later. If you're going to use big words, at least don't fuck up the basics. Also, this is a pretty vacuous commentary on a classic film.

By: Bookhouse

Bookhouse — Thu, 06 Aug 2009 09:47:00 -0800

Route 154 seems like a road out of a Beckett landscape, a long, hot, flat, dusty strip that runs through a featureless pine forest. He can't see the trees for the forest.

By: Guy_Inamonkeysuit

Guy_Inamonkeysuit — Thu, 06 Aug 2009 09:49:36 -0800

Also, this is a pretty vacuous commentary on a classic film. Yah... my reaction upon finishing was, this guy won a Pulitzer?

By: FelliniBlank

FelliniBlank — Thu, 06 Aug 2009 09:49:42 -0800

Oh, how did I know he wouldn't be able to get through the article without compulsively mentioning Reds? Call me clairvoyant.

By: mephron

mephron — Thu, 06 Aug 2009 09:49:49 -0800

Hamer stands for your grandfather's authority, annoyance at fools, and the willingness to kill in the belief that he was saving the weak by eliminating their predator. He was a righteous killer, a dinosaur whose time has passed. He's what Barack Obama swears he'll change about America. The mental leap there is astounding. I can't actually figure out where the HELL he pulled it from.

By: DU

DU — Thu, 06 Aug 2009 09:51:54 -0800

I find it easy to believe that a movie based on Bonnie and Clyde is destroying America. Well, easier than that jeans are doing it.

By: scrutiny

scrutiny — Thu, 06 Aug 2009 09:53:20 -0800

Ok, after reading some of the article I got half way down and found this beautiful statement: That point is that the legendary Penn movie that invented the New Bonnie and Clyde was such a ideological crock that it deserves placement in that list of other leftist crocks mistaken by gullible critics and film lovers as somehow great... What? How does them being a foil for the baby boomer generation have anything to do with the left? Interesting read, but I don't really buy his interpretation. Also, that satellite imagery in the beginning was terrible.

By: lumpenprole

lumpenprole — Thu, 06 Aug 2009 09:56:45 -0800

This is like, the weirdest article ever. It conflates Bonnie and Clyde (movie) with Michael Moore. Which is about as bad as it gets from a neocon standpoint, I'm guessing. Then claims that the romanticization of them was due to 60's libralism. Then this: "She was a dim romantic and self-styled poet who dreamed of appearing on Broadway but had to settle for waitressing..." "...she was the live wire, the jazz baby, Betty Boop." ".. [Clyde] possessed a native ferocity and aggression so intense it would have made him a natural leader and hero in the Second World War, another Texas Audie Murphy" What the hell? They were romantacized as outlaws, so instead you romanticize them as misplaced war heroes? As a piece of political essayism this is unfocused at best. As a piece of film/cultural criticism this is excerable. And that's the bottom of a very deep barrel.

By: Guy_Inamonkeysuit

Guy_Inamonkeysuit — Thu, 06 Aug 2009 09:56:46 -0800

A textbook example of pandering to your audience.

By: tkchrist

tkchrist — Thu, 06 Aug 2009 09:57:23 -0800

I know it can't just be me. But that article was nearly unreadable. My eyes kept glazing over. What the fuck is the guy doing attempting to retro-fit a 40 year old film into a meaningful or even topical allegory for contemporary politics. And why the fuck should anybody care.

By: Artw

Artw — Thu, 06 Aug 2009 09:58:49 -0800

The episode of Cracker where Robbie Coltrane demolishes the Bonny and Clyde myth is better.

By: Caduceus

Caduceus — Thu, 06 Aug 2009 10:01:15 -0800

It's not you at all, tkchrist. I couldn't read it at all. Execrable is right.

By: box

box — Thu, 06 Aug 2009 10:03:16 -0800

Wait, so this isn't about that Jay-Z/Beyonce video?

By: The Card Cheat

The Card Cheat — Thu, 06 Aug 2009 10:04:18 -0800

What's that, Mr. Hunter? I can't hear you! Put down the axe you're grinding for a minute and then maybe we can talk.

By: ZenMasterThis

ZenMasterThis — Thu, 06 Aug 2009 10:13:30 -0800

1. Hollywood exagerates a true story to make a more appealing film. 2. ??? 3. ~~COMMUNISM~~ Profit!

By: jquinby

jquinby — Thu, 06 Aug 2009 10:17:27 -0800

Great. Now I've got Serge Gainsbourg stuck in my head.

By: Pastabagel

Pastabagel — Thu, 06 Aug 2009 10:20:48 -0800

What a terrible article. Of course a film release in 1967 about criminals would take the position that the criminals were at least somewhat heroic and the legal/political establishment ossified and corrupt. That's because in 1967 that is precisely how most young people felt. And they were right. Should people have willing marched to their death in Vietnam simply because Johnson and some general ordered them to? What broken diseased logic this writer has, as does everyone who writes for commentary. They deliberately created a fictitious left wing in the 80's to serve as foil, but in the last 30 years, they've forgotten that they made it up. I think they think it's real. I'd like to direct this pea-brained writer to watch the film Public Enemies about B & C's contemporary John Dillinger, and then watch the film that Public Enemies liberally cribs from, Heat also directed by Michael Mann. In both films there is a scene where the criminal tells the bank's customers that he's there to steal the bank's money, not their money (in Heat, this is followed by the line "you're money is insured by the federal government"). The criminal stands in opposition to the corporation, because that is who we today believe to be corrupt and untrustworthy. In Heat, there is a subplot in which the master bank robber and the money launderer conspire to re-launder the bearer bonds of the latter that the former has stolen. The message is this - "we are the same, I didn't mean to steal from someone like me, so be way of apology, here's how we can screw over an insurance company and we can both make out." The author would be uncomfortable with this because in his authoritarian worldview, corporations are in line right after the government as deserving our reverence and awe. They are large, and he knows people who make money from them, so they must be great things. The writer doesn't understand that Americans at large have come to fully understand - that corporate America is a sham designed to extract money from taxpayers and consumers alike. We need more films like '67's Bonnie and Clyde, as well as Five Easy Pieces, the Conversation, etc. People need to be constantly reminded that systems and institutions can never be trusted because their sole purpose is to constrain the mercy and compassion of the people who work within them for the benefit of the people who own them. Commentary, National Review, and similar publications are subversive, anti-American, and criminal. They have knowingly provided intellectual cover for non-productive financiers and money hustlers to dismantle the economic and industrial might of the country in the interest of making a few dollars for themselves. The people listed at the bottom of this article should be monitored, challenged, and blocked at every opportunity. Regardless of their arguments, they cannot be trusted not to have ulterior motives.

By: The Light Fantastic

The Light Fantastic — Thu, 06 Aug 2009 10:23:41 -0800

He was a righteous killer, a dinosaur whose time has passed. He's what Barack Obama swears he'll change about America. So, Obama is going to bring back the dinosaurs?

By: psmealey

psmealey — Thu, 06 Aug 2009 10:25:16 -0800

vous avez lu l'histoire de jesse james comment il vicut comment il est mort ca vous a plus hein vous en d'mandez encore et bien ecoutez l'histoire de bonnie and clyde alors voil` clyde a une petite amie elle est belle et son prinom c'est bonnie a eux deux ils forment le gang barrow leurs noms bonnie parker et clyde barrow bonnie and clyde bonnie and clyde moi lorsque j'ai connu clyde autrefois c'itait un gars loyal honnjte et droit il faut croire que c'est la sociiti qui m'a difinitivement abnmi bonnie and clyde bonnie and clyde qu'est c' qu'on a pas icrit sur elle et moi on pritend que nous tuons de sang froid c'e'st pas drol' mais on est bien obligi de fair' tair' celui qui s'met ` gueuler bonnie and clyde bonnie and clyde chaqu'fois qu'un polic'man se fait buter qu'un garage ou qu'un' banque se fait braquer pour la polic' ca ne fait pas d'myster c'est signi clyde barrow bonnie parker bonnie and clyde bonnie and clyde maint'nant chaq'fois qu'on essaie d'se ranger de s'installer tranquill's dans un meubli dans lees trois jours voil` le tac tac tac des mitraillett's qui revienn't ` l'attaqu' bonnie and clyde bonnie and clyde bonnie and clyde bonnie and clyde un de ces quatr' nous tomberons ensemble moi j'm'en fous c'est pour Bonnie que je tremble qu'elle importanc' qu'ils me fassent la peau moi bonnie je tremble pour clyde barrow bonnie and clyde bonnie and clyde d'tout' fagon ils n'pouvaient plus s'en sortir la seule solution c'itait mourir mais plus d'un les a suivis en enfer quand sont morts barrow et bonnie parker bonnie and clyde bonnie and clyde

By: joe lisboa

joe lisboa — Thu, 06 Aug 2009 10:29:32 -0800

So, Obama is going to bring back the dinosaurs? Never Forget.

By: delmoi

delmoi — Thu, 06 Aug 2009 10:29:51 -0800

It seems like neocons especially conflate florid language for actual thought. They think if an argument sounds "pretty" or has the right emotional resonance, it's more convincing. And they think the more convincing arguments are the winning ones. They think if you can trap the person you're arguing with into making a logically necessary but uncomfortable assertion (example: "So you favor leaving Saddam Hussein in power!?") they win. Truth is not on their agenda, because they're stupid.

By: Sys Rq

Sys Rq — Thu, 06 Aug 2009 10:33:54 -0800

in his authoritarian worldview, corporations are in line right after the government as deserving our reverence and awe I think you've got the order reversed, unfortunately.

By: you just lost the game

you just lost the game — Thu, 06 Aug 2009 10:36:37 -0800

Well, I was all set to swoop in here and make a chickenhawk joke or two, but then I looked Mr. Hunter up and learned that he (unlike most of these right wing wannabe Tough Guys) actually served two years in the Army. Then I read on a little further and found out that he was actually "a ceremonial soldier in The Old Guard (3rd Infantry Regiment)." Which is just perfect. Dude got to dress up and pretend to be a soldier, without any of that inconvenient danger.

By: Diablevert

Diablevert — Thu, 06 Aug 2009 10:43:03 -0800

And they think the more convincing arguments are the winning ones. I, too, think that the argument that convinces more people is the winning one.

By: FelliniBlank

FelliniBlank — Thu, 06 Aug 2009 10:47:34 -0800

The thing is, although they're presented sympathetically and simplistically (as are Butch and Sundance, John Nash, Ray Charles, or a million other glossy biopic protagonists whose moral complications are whitewashed over), B&C aren't all that heroic in Penn's film. Plenty of antihero touches, sure, but to me -- even as a kid when I first saw the movie -- they come across as good-looking but shallow, reckless, short-sighted adolescents caught up in pathetically romanticizing themselves. It's possible to feel for them while still thinking, "Bad idea, kids. Bad, bad idea." Yes, they're likable, funny, etc., but when things go horribly wrong and they seem surprised (like when Bonnie's mother confronts her at the sandpit), the audience is not surprised with them -- and not just because we know the end of the story but because we say, "Um, you really didn't know this was where things were heading? You really thought your little joyride wasn't serious or full of awful consequences?" There's a difference between glamorizing outlaws (something humans have been doing for a thousand years at least) and presenting them as role models. Now, let's all rise and sing the Internationale.

By: item

item — Thu, 06 Aug 2009 10:50:01 -0800

My favorite date trick here in Dallas is to take the girl to Bonnie's grave, dig out a spoonful of dirt, then drive to Clyde's grave about 5 miles away and deposit the dirt. Gets 'em every time.

By: kirkaracha

kirkaracha — Thu, 06 Aug 2009 11:02:13 -0800

Clyde and Bonnie Died for Nihilism Nihilists! Fuck me. I mean, say what you like about the tenets of National Socialism, Dude, at least it's an ethos.

By: valentinepig

valentinepig — Thu, 06 Aug 2009 11:54:21 -0800

Good article for scanning. I think I got the point, though: John Wayne. "I'ma gonna cumma downa there-a anda fukka yore-a shidda uppa, pardna." Did you catch the titles & subtitles of some of the other articles? I knew there was a reason I only go online for football scores and the occasional peek in here...those guys are freaking loonatacks.

By: sideshow

sideshow — Thu, 06 Aug 2009 12:06:45 -0800

Then I read on a little further and found out that he was actually "a ceremonial soldier in The Old Guard (3rd Infantry Regiment)." Which is just perfect. Dude got to dress up and pretend to be a soldier, without any of that inconvenient danger. Not sure if it's the same in the Army, but to join the Marine equivalent of this unit you had to be in the very top of your class. In fact, it was one of the things the recruiters used (like becoming a Ranger, or a SEAL) to get people to sign up for extra years. So yeah, no danger working in DC, you just had to get the Navy Cross first. So, it might not be exactly be fair to consider these people "pretend" soldiers.

By: blucevalo

blucevalo — Thu, 06 Aug 2009 12:08:58 -0800

Any piece that tells me that the author thinks that he was wrong for thinking that Bosley Crowther was an idiot for hating on "Bonnie and Clyde" gets an automatic deep-six from me.

By: Faint of Butt

Faint of Butt — Thu, 06 Aug 2009 12:16:18 -0800

Hold the phone! This was written by Stephen Hunter?! This man used to be the film critic for the Baltimore Sun. Now, I may have been a mere unsophisticated youth at the time, but I remember his reviews being insightful, witty, biting and above all intelligent. Oh, Stephen, Stephen, Stephen. What have they done to you?

By: kirkaracha

kirkaracha — Thu, 06 Aug 2009 14:13:57 -0800

Huh, I never realized John Wayne was Italian.

By: FelliniBlank

FelliniBlank — Thu, 06 Aug 2009 15:21:12 -0800

Why do you think they call him Il Duce?

By: tkchrist

tkchrist — Thu, 06 Aug 2009 16:31:05 -0800

John Wayne was in the Mentors?

By: IndigoJones

IndigoJones — Thu, 06 Aug 2009 17:24:43 -0800

...no danger working in DC.... Actually, they have quite a distinguished combat record and even now they don't hang just in DC. Not that DC is wholly out of harm's way....

By: Francis

Francis — Fri, 07 Aug 2009 02:55:24 -0800

People need to be constantly reminded that systems and institutions can never be trusted because their sole purpose is to constrain the mercy and compassion of the people who work within them for the benefit of the people who own them. I work for the NHS. If that organisation's purpose is to constrain the mercy and compassion of the people who work within them, that's because its goal is to prevent people being sick in the first place and to cure them when they get sick rather than keep them ill so they need to continue to be recipients of mercy and compassion. And who owns the NHS? The citizens of Great Britain. And yes it does work to benefit us more than anyone. (I know some in senior management or politics think it's for their benefit, and some doctors definitely do...)