Comments on: I love baseball!

I love baseball!

Chocolate Pickle — Sun, 23 Aug 2009 17:06:23 -0800

Today in the bottom of the 9th inning, Phils second baseman Eric Bruntlett scored an unassisted triple play against the Mets. It's only the fifteenth in MLB history.

Runners on first and second were both signaled to steal. The batter hit a line drive right to the second base bag, and Bruntlett speared it. He stepped on the bag (putting the lead runner out) he then tagged the runner coming in from first. This is even more rare than "perfect games" for pitchers, of which there have been 18.

By: Chocolate Pickle

Chocolate Pickle — Sun, 23 Aug 2009 17:11:57 -0800

The list of times this has happened, nearly all of them were 2nd base or shortstops, which makes perfect sense. But two of them were first basemen, and I don't understand how a guy at 1st could do it.

By: The Biggest Dreamer

The Biggest Dreamer — Sun, 23 Aug 2009 17:12:52 -0800

From the first link, "This video is no longer available due to a copyright claim by MLB Advanced Media." :( From the second link: freaking AWESOME. Great way to end a game.

By: dirigibleman

dirigibleman — Sun, 23 Aug 2009 17:15:27 -0800

Here's a list of all the unassisted triple plays and how they played out (except today's).

By: sjuhawk31

sjuhawk31 — Sun, 23 Aug 2009 17:15:59 -0800

I had turned the game off to play some PS3 hockey when it was 8-4, assuming it was over, then turned the game back on just AFTER they showed the last replay of the play. Thanks for allowing me to see this, and realize how important it was since the Phillies were only up 2 at the time, with no outs.

By: saffry

saffry — Sun, 23 Aug 2009 17:16:14 -0800

Official video here

By: ORthey

ORthey — Sun, 23 Aug 2009 17:16:22 -0800

But two of them were first basemen, and I don't understand how a guy at 1st could do it. Yeah, I'm puzzling over that one too. Maybe an exaggerated shift somehow? Or perhaps an enterprising 1st baseman who catches the ball, steps on first, and runs across the diamond to nab the dude running back to second?

By: Flunkie

Flunkie — Sun, 23 Aug 2009 17:23:33 -0800

I saw Randy Velarde's, live. It was one of the few times in my life when, literally, my jaw dropped.

By: Chocolate Pickle

Chocolate Pickle — Sun, 23 Aug 2009 17:24:39 -0800

Mods? Please substitute Saffrey's video for my now-cancelled Youtube?

By: calgary

calgary — Sun, 23 Aug 2009 17:26:29 -0800

I watched Asdrúbal Cabrera turn the 14th unassisted triple play against my Blue Jays last year. Afterwards he just trotted into the dugout as if it wasn't that big a deal and actually tossed the ball into the stands.

By: HuronBob

HuronBob — Sun, 23 Aug 2009 17:29:43 -0800

nice....

By: languagehat

languagehat — Sun, 23 Aug 2009 17:31:16 -0800

Fucking Mets.

By: el_lupino

el_lupino — Sun, 23 Aug 2009 17:31:21 -0800

This is actually a nice illustration of why there are so few unassisted triple plays. It's not because the actual physical mechanics on the part of the shortstop or second baseman are all that hard. It's not like making, say, a diving over-the-shoulder catch at a full sprint. It's just that almost no team is stupid enough to have guys on first and second (or the bases loaded) with no outs, down by two runs and call a hit-and-run with their cleanup hitter at the plate. (Mets fans: I'm just sayin'...)

By: dirigibleman

dirigibleman — Sun, 23 Aug 2009 17:35:04 -0800

Wow, almost half the unassisted triple plays have occured in the last 20 years, and there was only one between 1928 and 1991.

By: cortex

cortex — Sun, 23 Aug 2009 17:36:09 -0800

Fixed.

By: Doofus Magoo

Doofus Magoo — Sun, 23 Aug 2009 17:37:15 -0800

el_lupino: It's just that almost no team is stupid enough to have guys on first and second (or the bases loaded) with no outs, down by two runs and call a hit-and-run with their cleanup hitter at the plate.

To be fair, Lidge was pitching at the time.

By: MNDZ

MNDZ — Sun, 23 Aug 2009 17:46:57 -0800

Tulo!!!!!!

By: danb

danb — Sun, 23 Aug 2009 18:07:40 -0800

Well, that ruled.

By: dirigibleman

dirigibleman — Sun, 23 Aug 2009 18:10:15 -0800

From the Deadspin thread: The funny thing is Bruntlett had already committed an error AND booted another ground ball that went his way in the 9th. It was like God fell asleep and then woke up and went, "wait, the mets are trying to win? No...that's not supposed to happen." Boom. Triple play.

By: exogenous

exogenous — Sun, 23 Aug 2009 18:12:15 -0800

Amazin

By: sachinag

sachinag — Sun, 23 Aug 2009 18:12:29 -0800

By: contessa

contessa — Sun, 23 Aug 2009 18:16:48 -0800

This play made my dad's day (life long Phillies fan). Therefore it made mine. Go Phillies!!

By: smackfu

smackfu — Sun, 23 Aug 2009 18:21:40 -0800

I would guess first basemen get triple plays when baserunner on second base isn't paying attention.

By: Skygazer

Skygazer — Sun, 23 Aug 2009 18:27:38 -0800

Cool, but confusing. What if the second baseman runner wasn't stealing, but didn't get back to the bag on time after Bruntlet caught the line drive, would he have been safe?

By: caddis

caddis — Sun, 23 Aug 2009 18:28:09 -0800

Not every tragedy facing mankind needs to be posted on the blue.

By: Bonzai

Bonzai — Sun, 23 Aug 2009 18:37:24 -0800

What if the second baseman runner wasn't stealing, but didn't get back to the bag on time after Bruntlet caught the line drive, would he have been safe? No. After a fly out the runners have to tag up, if a defensive player touches the bag while he has the ball before the runner tags up it's a force out. A perfect game and an unassisted triple play. Cool month. Now we just need someone to hit for the cycle.

By: vapidave

vapidave — Sun, 23 Aug 2009 18:40:28 -0800

That is: Once every 25,947 games or if you watched every home game it would take on average 320 years to see it happen once during which you would consume 1621 pounds of Cracker Jacks The odds of an unassisted triple play occurring in any game is less than half as likely as your lifetime odds of death by legal intervention involving firearm discharge.

By: smackfu

smackfu — Sun, 23 Aug 2009 18:43:25 -0800

there was only one between 1928 and 1991 What's up with that that? Maybe a strategy change to maximize double plays or something, that if you're really lucky leads to triple plays...

By: Bonzai

Bonzai — Sun, 23 Aug 2009 18:44:56 -0800

I'll be damned looks like there was one. Looks like he got an assist from the score keeper though. DAMN cool month.

By: ardgedee

ardgedee — Sun, 23 Aug 2009 18:51:21 -0800

> Wow, almost half the unassisted triple plays have occured in the last 20 years, and there was only one between 1928 and 1991. Since there was a drought between 1927 and 1968, there have been exactly as many unassisted triple plays in my parents' lifetime as in mine. There were no unassisted triple plays in James Dean's lifetime. Between the 7th and 8th unassisted triple plays, The Great Depression, World War II, and space race to the moon all occurred. After the 7th, Philo Farnsworth demonstrated the first black and white electronic television, leading eventually to ubiquitous broadcast television and color TV became standardized before the 8th. The golden age of radio began and ended during this time. The players on the field during the 8th triple play were not born when the 7th occurred.

By: You Should See the Other Guy

You Should See the Other Guy — Sun, 23 Aug 2009 18:51:21 -0800

More a fluke than skill, really. Neat nonetheless. The first base runner really fucked up, it appears. He seemed confused as to what was going on and instead of even attempting to run back to first he moved toward the outfield.

By: delfuego

delfuego — Sun, 23 Aug 2009 18:51:21 -0800

Bonzai, there were TWO this month -- Felix Pie (Orioles) also did it, on the 14th. Great month, indeed!

By: rtha

rtha — Sun, 23 Aug 2009 18:51:21 -0800

Damn, that's cool. I love baseball.

By: delfuego

delfuego — Sun, 23 Aug 2009 18:52:46 -0800

Jesus, and I'm an idiot -- I actually watched Melky Cabrera hit for the cycle on August 2nd, meaning there were three players who hit for the cycle this month. Damn, that's cool.

By: rtha

rtha — Sun, 23 Aug 2009 18:53:11 -0800

Damn, that's cool. I love baseball. (Despite the Giants performance last night and today. Sigh.)

By: rtha

rtha — Sun, 23 Aug 2009 18:56:28 -0800

Oh, and two years ago, on Metafilter.

By: stupidsexyFlanders

stupidsexyFlanders — Sun, 23 Aug 2009 19:00:42 -0800

I think I broke my hand demonstrating Bruntlett's play for my wife in the kitchen. It's deceptive, you really have to be in shape to pretend to play this game. Beyond how it ended, another couple of cool things about this game's first inning -- Pedro Martinez made his return to Flushing at the plate rather than on the mound, as the Phils sent 9 to bat in a 6-run first inning. Further, Oliver Perez (Mets pitcher) got yanked in the middle of the Pedro AB with the count 3-0, deeply embarrassing to get the hook in the 1st inning in the middle of an AB -- facing the other pitcher. THEN, in the bottom of the inning the Mets leadoff hitter swats the second pitch for an inside the park home run. Relive the unassisted triple play through the unbelieving eyes of Phillies message board posters. All around good time.

By: furiousxgeorge

furiousxgeorge — Sun, 23 Aug 2009 19:01:08 -0800

lol mets.

By: madcaptenor

madcaptenor — Sun, 23 Aug 2009 19:05:38 -0800

stupidsexyFlanders: what was up with Perez getting pulled in the middle of an at bat? I didn't realize that was even legal (and have been scratching my head over that for the last eight hours, so I asked about it over at AskMe).

By: Joey Michaels

Joey Michaels — Sun, 23 Aug 2009 19:12:21 -0800

You know, the fact that this was against the inept 2009 Mets doesn't diminish the coolness of this at all.

By: Chocolate Pickle

Chocolate Pickle — Sun, 23 Aug 2009 19:14:22 -0800

The first base runner really fucked up, it appears. He seemed confused as to what was going on and instead of even attempting to run back to first he moved toward the outfield. Nah, with the second baseman standing in front of him holding the ball, he was dead meat. If he'd retreated towards 1st, there would have been a run-down, and the chance of the runner not being put out in a rundown in MLB is real low. Less than 1 in 100. Instead, he accepted the inevitable. As soon as he left the baseline, he was out even without being tagged, but he wasn't really trying very hard to evade.

By: uncanny hengeman

uncanny hengeman — Sun, 23 Aug 2009 19:50:34 -0800

Fixed. Say it ain't so, cortex, say it ain't so.

By: @troy

@troy — Sun, 23 Aug 2009 19:56:39 -0800

If he'd retreated towards 1st, there would have been a run-down No run-down. Just toss to first and have him tag the bag for the final out. Dude should have done that anyway just to screw with people.

By: hippybear

hippybear — Sun, 23 Aug 2009 20:02:06 -0800

Ah, but then it is no longer "unassisted".

By: mazola

mazola — Sun, 23 Aug 2009 20:03:00 -0800

You don't see that everyday!

By: benzo8

benzo8 — Sun, 23 Aug 2009 20:07:07 -0800

So, um... For the half of the world that doesn't play baseball - what actually happened? One guy got three people out, right? Catch, standing on the second base (I assume stopping the guy who'd run on towards third from coming back - why couldn't he just go on to home?) and the "chase me, chase me!" tag? Is that right? Man, this FPP could have done with some actual background... If this were an obit post, it'd be superseded by someone who actually gave a damn in about thirty minutes time.

By: hippybear

hippybear — Sun, 23 Aug 2009 20:14:44 -0800

benzo8: The runner who hit the ball was out when the second baseman caught the ball. The runner who left second had to return to second in order to be safe, because once the ball was caught, the play officially ended. The baseman touched the base with the ball in his possession without the runner being there, which meant he was out. The runner who left first base had to return there in order to be safe, and could have been gotten out in two ways -- either by being tagged with the ball or by having the base tagged by a someone in possession of the ball. Runners can not proceed toward home when a ball is caught, except in the case of the ever-confusing infield-fly rule, which states that if you are safe on base when a ball is caught, you can try to get to another base and outrun the throw from the outfield. Since none of the runners were on base when the ball was caught, this rule never came into play.

By: benzo8

benzo8 — Sun, 23 Aug 2009 20:16:59 -0800

hippybear: "benzo8: The runner who hit the ball was out when the second baseman caught the ball. The runner who left second had to return to second in order to be safe, because once the ball was caught, the play officially ended." Great - thanks! It's was the fact that the play had ended when the ball was caught which escaped me...

By: uncanny hengeman

uncanny hengeman — Sun, 23 Aug 2009 20:18:17 -0800

One guy got three people out, right? Catch, standing on the second base (I assume stopping the guy who'd run on towards third from coming back - why couldn't he just go on to home?) and the "chase me, chase me!" tag? Is that right? Yep, correct. why couldn't he just go on to home? I was also asking myself that. You can't steal on an out? That can be the only answer, surely? /Australian //Australia has recently had 10 or so new digital free-to-air TV stations foisted upon us. A 24 hour sport station has started broadcasting MBL and has run a "pick which team you are going to root for" type advertising campaign. Any ideas, people? I want a team of knockabout renegades, journeymen, and rejects... but still with a good chance of winning.

By: Chocolate Pickle

Chocolate Pickle — Sun, 23 Aug 2009 20:24:38 -0800

No run-down. Just toss to first and have him tag the bag for the final out. You're quite right. I wasn't thinking.

By: hippybear

hippybear — Sun, 23 Aug 2009 20:28:53 -0800

uncanny hengeman: I'm an underdog rooter, so I usually find I watch the Boston Red Sox or the Chicago Cubs toward the end of the season. Add in the New York Mets, and you're pretty much guaranteed heartbreak. I also tend to look at the more rough-n-tumble teams by appearance, but that's more of a prurient thing than rooting for a sports team. Our playoff system has guaranteed slots and "wild card" slots, and looking at the wildcard standings is a good way to perhaps choose a team which is "on the cusp". To help you read that chart (which is confusing even to me), the first two colums are Wins and Losses. The PCT column is the ratio of wins to losses, anything over .500 (50%) is considered quite good in baseball. The GB column means "Games Back" or "Games Behind", which is a measure of how many wins by that team and/or losses by the leading team have to happen for that team to catch up. The rest of the columns pretty much you can ignore unless you're a real stats freak.

By: nosila

nosila — Sun, 23 Aug 2009 20:30:29 -0800

Wow. I cannot believe I know the answer to a baseball question. (Or that I'm reading this thread, really!) If the ball is caught in the air, the runner has to go back to the base they just came from and tag up before they can move on. I believe that means that it the dude on the base they just came from tags the base first, they're out(ta there).

By: hippybear

hippybear — Sun, 23 Aug 2009 20:36:37 -0800

Grrr. I screwed up the standings links. Season standings here, wildcard standings here.

By: intermod

intermod — Sun, 23 Aug 2009 20:36:41 -0800

For the record (rimshot) here are the relevant Wikipedia articles, with all the usual data on who did what when: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unassisted_triple_play http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perfect_game http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hitting_for_the_cycle Making August awesome indeed, but I already knew that. (HBTM!)

By: @troy

@troy — Sun, 23 Aug 2009 20:40:54 -0800

except in the case of the ever-confusing infield-fly rule That's not the infield fly rule :)

By: CountSpatula

CountSpatula — Sun, 23 Aug 2009 20:41:49 -0800

Jaw-droppingly incredible play. I particularly liked the few seconds it took for the second baseman to *actually* grasp what he had just done. Shit, I'd still be wondering if I actually did it, were that person me.

By: CountSpatula

CountSpatula — Sun, 23 Aug 2009 20:44:32 -0800

You can't steal on an out? I believe it's cool if you're stealing a base and strike three is swung (or looked at) at the plate. Also, when there's a catch, say, in the far outfield, and you tag than dash for the next base.

By: hippybear

hippybear — Sun, 23 Aug 2009 20:44:59 -0800

And I stand corrected. Thanks.

By: LobsterMitten

LobsterMitten — Sun, 23 Aug 2009 21:00:53 -0800

As to the 1B issue, this from Baseball Tonight on ESPN: the last time an unassisted triple play ended a game was in 1927, and it was a first baseman who did it. He caught the liner, tagged the runner at first, and apparently sprinted to second to tag the bag before that runner got there. posted by sachinag at 6:12 PM on August 23 And apparently, there had been another unassisted triple play the DAY BEFORE, and the first baseman had been thinking about how a guy playing his position could make one happen. According to a commenter on Baseball Think Factory:

There were extenuating circumstances in first baseman Johnny Neun's triple play on May 31, 1927 - shortstop Jimmy Cooney had pulled one off the day before, and Neun read about it in the newspaper. He reportedly had a long discussion about the chances of pulling off such a play at breakfast before the game. When he caught a line drive with the runners on first and second going, he tagged the runner from first, and waved off the second baseman, running to second for the putout instead of throwing the ball, which would have been far easier. He had the unnassisted triple play in mind from the get-go, prompted by Cooney doing it the day before.

There's also discussion in that thread of reasons for the jump in unassisted triple plays in the last 20 years.

By: Rarebit Fiend

Rarebit Fiend — Sun, 23 Aug 2009 21:00:53 -0800

Relive the unassisted triple play through the unbelieving eyes of Phillies message board posters. The Phillies phans have no right to be making the negative comments about their team that they were making up until the triple play. The Phillies always do everything right and never mess up especially when playing the Mets. Damn Phillies.

By: mathlete

mathlete — Sun, 23 Aug 2009 21:05:25 -0800

My sister was at the game when Rafael Furcal made the 12th unassisted triple play in MLB history. I was watching the game on TV, saw it, and decided to call her to make sure she understood the significance of what she just saw. "Did you see that? That's only the twelfth time that's happened in Major League history!" "What?" "The unassisted triple play." "Oh that, I was in the bathroom."

By: seandq

seandq — Sun, 23 Aug 2009 21:06:43 -0800

True story: A Braves fan friend of mine and I were working on a school project together in ninth grade (for context: April 29, 2007). I screamed "Triple play!" to be antagonistic at the Braves TBS broadcast, and if by some sort of fate, the Braves grounded into a triple play. Unassisted, as well, by Tulowitzski of the Rockies. Two unassisted triple plays and two years later, I get a text from the same friend: "Karma is a bitch." As a Mets fan, I wish it ended the season of suffering and not just the game, though.

By: LobsterMitten

LobsterMitten — Sun, 23 Aug 2009 21:07:18 -0800

Sports Illustrated article about the back to back unassisted triple plays, interviewing the players sixty years later.

By: Civil_Disobedient

Civil_Disobedient — Sun, 23 Aug 2009 21:11:30 -0800

Wow, that was way less eventful than you would think for something that happens so rarely. Still cool, just over way too soon.

By: LobsterMitten

LobsterMitten — Sun, 23 Aug 2009 21:16:00 -0800

Also linked from that BBTF thread: Baseball's Sad Losing Team: A Poem (with apologies to Franklin P. Adams) This is the saddest of possible word Bruntlett to Bruntlett to Bruntlett Killer of rally in season absurd Bruntlett to Bruntlett to Bruntlett Vicious line drive that seemed destined to drop Giving the Mets chance to come out on top This year's indignities simply won't stop Bruntlett to Bruntlett to Bruntlett

By: LobsterMitten

LobsterMitten — Sun, 23 Aug 2009 21:17:52 -0800

Reference, of course, to Baseball's Sad Lexicon

By: Artw

Artw — Sun, 23 Aug 2009 21:20:55 -0800

Yes, yes, yes, but *we* just won the ashes.

By: uncanny hengeman

uncanny hengeman — Sun, 23 Aug 2009 21:25:47 -0800

There's also discussion in that thread of reasons for the jump in unassisted triple plays in the last 20 years. The equivalent in baseball's sporting cousin would be the hat-trick - three batsmen out in three consecutive balls by the same bowler. Interestingly: 1877 - 1988 [~111 years] 17 hat-tricks 1988 - present [~21 years] 20 hat-tricks Australia's Merv Hughes is the only person to do this in three different overs. It also spanned two days and two innings! IIRC he didn't even REALISE he got a hat-trick. It was a few minutes later and someone flashed a message on the sight screen: Erm. Merv. You just got a hat-trick back then. *not the actual message http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Test_cricket_hat-tricks

By: eriko

eriko — Sun, 23 Aug 2009 21:31:50 -0800

The runner who hit the ball was out when the second baseman caught the ball. The runner who left second had to return to second in order to be safe, because once the ball was caught, the play officially ended. Err, not even wrong. Batters may advance on a dead ball under certain circumstances (see rule 5.09 for a list), but a caught ball is *never* a dead ball unless it's the third out. The runners may advance at their peril, however, they are required to retouch their base after the catch is made *7.08d). This is true even of a caught foul ball -- indeed, if a foul ball is caught and the fielder then falls out of play, the runner advance one base (7.04c, and the ball is dead.) A foul ball that touches the ground or leaves the field of play is a dead ball, runners are required to return to their bases and cannot be put out (5.09c) So. The batter hits a liner to the SS or 2B, which is caught, this retires the batter (6.05a). The runners, having taken a lead, or actually taken off on a hit-and-run, are required to re-tag their base before advancing. The SS or 2B tags second base, which retires the runner who was on 2nd (7.08d) and then tags the runner coming from 1st (technically, this is *also* 7.08d, but since the ball is alive, 7.08c also applies. In either case, out). This, being the third out, ends the inning, the ball is now dead. And, of course, the ball is now a serious keepsake for some fielder. The ball becomes alive again when the batting team takes the field and the pitcher is ready to pitch, the Umpire at home base calls 'Play!' and the ball is live. (5.11) The Infield Fly rule fixes a problem. If an high fly that doesn't leave the infield is hit, the runners are screwed without the rule. If they try to advance, the fielder makes the catch and throws the ball to the base to get then runner for failure to tag. If the runners do not try to advance, the fielder intentionally misses the catch, fields the ball off the ground, and gets the force out. So, the Infield Fly (defined in Rule 2.00) Rules: Must be a fair fly ball, catchable by an infielder with ordinary effort, with 1st and 2nd, or bases loaded, and less than two outs. Should that be the case, the Umpire calls "Infield fly!" (or if close to the baseline, the great baseball tongue twister "Infield Fly If Fair!") and the batter is out. The runners may advance at their peril, however, the ball is treated as a fly ball if caught (they need to retouch.) If the ball is not caught and bounces foul, the batter has hit a foul ball, and returns to the box. If the ball is caught in foul territory, the ball is a foul ball, the batter is out, the ball is dead and runners return to their bases. Oddly enough, if the ball is not caught, lands foul and then rolls into fair territory between home and first or home or third, it *is* an infield fly and the batter is out, the runners may advance at their peril, and since the ball was not caught, they are not required to retouch. Basically, what the Infield Fly rules states is that if there's an infield fly, everyone treats the ball as if the fielder has caught it.

By: Ironmouth

Ironmouth — Sun, 23 Aug 2009 21:33:05 -0800

Phils second baseman Eric Bruntlett scored an unassisted triple play against the Mets. One cannot "score" a "play." One scores when on offense.

By: awfurby

awfurby — Sun, 23 Aug 2009 21:37:40 -0800

I don't think the hat-trick is the equivalent really - it could be if the bowler was responsible for all three of the wickets with no help from his teammates i.e. bowled, lbw and caught & bowled. Out of 37 hat-tricks in Tests only 5 have been unassisted: Matthews vs South Africa (b, lbw, lbw), 1912 Matthews vs South Africa (b, c&b, c&b), 1912 Dominic Cork vs West INdies (b, lbw, lbw), 1995 Mohammad Sami vs Sri Lanka (lbw, lbw, b) 2002 Jermain Lawson vs Australia (b, b, lbw) 2003

By: klangklangston

klangklangston — Sun, 23 Aug 2009 21:50:33 -0800

" Any ideas, people? I want a team of knockabout renegades, journeymen, and rejects... but still with a good chance of winning." Let me recommend my team to you, the Detroit Tigers. They've got a mix of young farm talent, aging stars, quiet position players and can just barely score a run. A lot of people had them counted out for this season after an absolute bomb last year, but (mostly through great pitching), they've managed to hold on to the top spot in an admittedly weak division (this year). Their manager is a colorful old salt of the best baseball tradition, prone to putting on a lot of crazy plays (like double steals) which are frustrating if you actually think about the odds. But he's a taciturn mustached chain-smoker and we love him. Bless You Boys is a pretty fun blog devoted to the Tigers, their triumphs and travails. I'd add the caveat that it used to be run by a couple of my friends, but they moved on years ago, so it's out of genuine affection for Ian Casselbury's writing, which is goofy in the way a fan's should be. You can add in the fact that the Tigers' Old English D is the best logo in baseball, maybe in all of sports, and that nothing says fun like supporting the team from a decaying rust-belt city (no one will accuse you of liking them because it's fashionable).

By: Justinian

Justinian — Sun, 23 Aug 2009 21:58:04 -0800

To back up eriko, the infield fly rule is actually fairly simple if you keep in mind its purpose, to prevent a situation where someone might benefit by deliberately dropping an easy infield pop-up.

By: dirigibleman

dirigibleman — Sun, 23 Aug 2009 22:03:09 -0800

Any ideas, people? I want a team of knockabout renegades, journeymen, and rejects... Pittsburgh Pirates! but still with a good chance of winning. Oh*. In that case, I recommend the Tampa Bay Rays. They've recently completed a rebuilding (well, building) which saw them reach the World Series last year. Since they're in the same division as the Yankees and Red Sox, they're perennial underdogs. OTOH, they have boring uniforms and a crappy stadium. If you wore a (modern day) Rays hat around, people would think you have tuberculosis. But he's a taciturn mustached chain-smoker and we love him. Ah, Jim Leyland. The last manager the Pirates had when they were good. *I do think they have a chance to start winning in a few years, though. And they have the best stadium in the league by most accounts. Also, Arrr!

By: mathlete

mathlete — Sun, 23 Aug 2009 22:15:27 -0800

Leyland can sing, too.

By: kirkaracha

kirkaracha — Sun, 23 Aug 2009 22:39:12 -0800

the chance of the runner not being put out in a rundown in MLB is real low. Less than 1 in 100 I saw one. Last month the A's had an Angels baserunner in a rundown between first and second and the first baseman hit him with the ball. It was part of a disastrous 6-run third inning. The A's committed two errors in the inning. They threw the ball into the bullpen trying to throw out a runner at first. Later the Angels had a guy on third and sent him home despite the batter flying out to shallow left field. The left fielder made a beautiful throw home, which beat the runner by 10 feet and went straight into the catcher's glove. He dropped it.

By: rokusan

rokusan — Sun, 23 Aug 2009 22:49:14 -0800

Bah, infielders. It's so easy for them. In all this hubbub, though, how many people noticed that Padres catcher Nick Hundley completed a double play yesterday at second base? Think about it, followed by a link.

By: dirigibleman

dirigibleman — Sun, 23 Aug 2009 23:03:07 -0800

Why does the MLB's flash thingie not work in Linux? It's Flash!

By: dirigibleman

dirigibleman — Sun, 23 Aug 2009 23:10:58 -0800

In all this hubbub, though, how many people noticed that Padres catcher Nick Hundley completed a double play yesterday at second base? Oh, and did you see the look Pujols gave Ryan? Someone's not getting a secret Santa gift this year! (and seriously, why does this Flash stuff not work in Firefox???)

By: klangklangston

klangklangston — Sun, 23 Aug 2009 23:11:54 -0800

Wait, so can one of you cricket understanders walk me through how you'd get an unassisted hat trick? (Also, do the bails go back up for each new batter after the previous one was dismissed?)

By: at the crossroads

at the crossroads — Sun, 23 Aug 2009 23:28:00 -0800

Runners on first and second. Second baseman caught a line drive, stepped on 2nd base & then tagged out the first base runner trying to steal. This is the part of the year when baseball gets really good, aspecially if you betsa lotta money on it.

By: awfurby

awfurby — Sun, 23 Aug 2009 23:34:23 -0800

Wait, so can one of you cricket understanders walk me through how you'd get an unassisted hat trick? (Also, do the bails go back up for each new batter after the previous one was dismissed?) Sure: Bowled - bowler hits the stumps with the ball. Out. Unassisted. Caught and Bowled - batter hits the ball and the bowler catches it. Unassisted. Leg Before Wicket - here we go. The bowler bowls the ball at the stumps - the batter does not play a shot at the ball and it hits him on the legs. If the line of the ball is adjudged that it would have carried through to hit the stumps had the batter not put his legs in the way, the batter is out Leg Before Wicket (in this case the wicket = stumps). Unassisted. In all three cases the batter is out only through the actions of the bowler. To answer the question about bails - yes - when the stumps are hit and the batter is out the bails are placed back on the stumps and the new batter takes his place.

By: awfurby

awfurby — Sun, 23 Aug 2009 23:40:08 -0800

This is a good example of Leg Before Wicket (YouTube).

By: mathlete

mathlete — Sun, 23 Aug 2009 23:40:33 -0800

Oh, and did you see the look Pujols gave Ryan? Someone's not getting a secret Santa gift this year! His post game comments said as much.

By: klangklangston

klangklangston — Sun, 23 Aug 2009 23:42:25 -0800

But there's no way to turn a double play, is there? I mean, if I recall correctly, play stops once one of the batters is out (striker or non-striker), but you can't have a play that simultaneously gets them both out, right? Like, if the ball was fielded while they're running (perhaps in late innings where a team needs to score runs and is on a hope and pray strategy), if the fielder can tag one the non-striker, he can't then throw the ball back to knock down the striker's bail while the striker's out of his pocket (I forget what that thing's called, the line they're safe behind), thus putting two out on the same play, right? Play stops once one is dismissed?

By: klangklangston

klangklangston — Sun, 23 Aug 2009 23:45:46 -0800

(The only cricket I ever played was with a bunch of Indian students in the parking lot behind the campus newspaper, which only required a bat, tennis ball and a dorm chair for the "wicket." Since you just got an over and the goal was to see how many runs you could score, no non-striker, I don't have a particularly firm foundation for the actual rules.)

By: HostBryan

HostBryan — Sun, 23 Aug 2009 23:46:17 -0800

uncanny hengeman - I concur with klangklangston. There's not a lot of flash or big names on the Tigers roster, and they've gone from a truly horrible season last year to being in serious contention for the division championship this year (and in 2006 they actually made it to the World Series, where they lost in heart-breaking fashion), so that should fulfill your scrappiness requirement. Besides, they also have some of the best pitching in baseball (Justin Verlander is just outstanding, and we've seen some good stuff from Rick Porcello too). Besides, given the city of Detroit's situation these days, any goodwill, even by proxy, couldn't hurt.

By: rokusan

rokusan — Mon, 24 Aug 2009 00:12:37 -0800

Yep, the Tigers are an average team, talent-wise, but they get at least a +10 bonus by having freakin' Coach Yoda running the team.

By: klangklangston

klangklangston — Mon, 24 Aug 2009 00:20:53 -0800

In 2006, the Tigers story was that in 2003, they'd lost the most games of any team in a season (and avoided being the worst team ever in history by the existence of some 1880s Cleveland team that was intentionally gutted) and were a mere 47 games back from first place, a new record. So, they got a little better in '04 and '05, finishing in the middle of the pack but nothing contender like, and then they just exploded in '06 with amazing pitching from young guys Justin Verlander and Jeremy Bonderman. Bonderman's been laid up with blood clots pretty much ever since, and Verlander had a shaky year last year, but they were lights out in '06. Verlander, especially, is a great pitcher to watch—routinely in the top 90s, occasionally over 100, with a with a wicked curve. They can't really hit for shit, but they do have Miguel Cabrera, who's an absolute monster at the plate, and then a handful of guys who are generally inconsistent, either journeymen (Adam Everett), youngsters (Clete Thomas) or aging former stars (Magglio Ordoñez, who used to have the best hair in baseball). If we can keep ahead of the White Sox (another team that was supposed to suck this year, but doesn't compared to the rest of its division), they'll go to the playoffs and probably lose in the first round.

By: awfurby

awfurby — Mon, 24 Aug 2009 00:42:51 -0800

By: vrakatar

vrakatar — Mon, 24 Aug 2009 01:06:25 -0800

Mehts. Any non-usians looking for a baseball team should pledge fidelity to the Yankees. The parademons will be merciful to all who pledge.

By: fireoyster

fireoyster — Mon, 24 Aug 2009 01:08:32 -0800

I want a team of knockabout renegades, journeymen, and rejects... but still with a good chance of winning. uncanny hengeman, I have never heard a better description of the Texas Rangers. The "team that can't" this year has turned into the "team that just might." Somebody in the Rangers front office (bolstered greatly by Nolan Ryan) has been doing something right this year, and this team actually has a mix of players that, while they screw up by the numbers on occasion, are actually winning most of the games the should win, and even several no one expected them to win. 1 game back in the wild card heading into Yankee Stadium is going to be...interesting. Oh, and Pudge is back. Yay!

By: dseaton

dseaton — Mon, 24 Aug 2009 01:14:13 -0800

The only thing that could have made this better would be hearing Harry Kalas call it.

By: vrakatar

vrakatar — Mon, 24 Aug 2009 01:15:03 -0800

The Yankees will exterminate the Rangers. The Yankees will Exterminate the Redsux. The Yankees will EXTERMINATE EXTERMINATE EXTERMINATE

By: uncanny hengeman

uncanny hengeman — Mon, 24 Aug 2009 02:03:48 -0800

Thanks for all your suggestions, v.much appreciated. Wait, so can one of you cricket understanders walk me through how you'd get an unassisted hat trick? Can I correct awfurby's otherwise spot-on explanation: You can be out LBW if you play a shot, but a different sub-law applies and it's much more forgiving towards the batsman. Also, you can be out LBW no matter what part of the body the ball hits. You can be out LBW if it hits you on the head, should the situation somehow arise. But there's no way to turn a double play, is there? Unfortunately, no. I've seen a few, but once the first batsmen is out then the ball is dead and it's a case of the fieldsman going thru the motions. Or just making sure, lest the first batsman be given not out. I've also seen a few double plays on the same batsman, caught / stumped being one of the most common. Here's an example I linked from the recent sex scandal thread. The fella she got out was one of the greatest players of the modern era, BTW. This was in a charity match: Double play on the same batsman.

By: rokusan

rokusan — Mon, 24 Aug 2009 02:59:04 -0800

Can someone more versed in the lore of records confirm my suspicion that in in this 2009 season, the New York Mets have broken the all-time record for "Most Different Ways To Lose at Baseball?"

By: rmd1023

rmd1023 — Mon, 24 Aug 2009 04:27:16 -0800

Uncanny Hengeman: while they're certainly having some good years lately, for nearly a hundred years the Boston Red Sox have been messing with their fans by snatching defeat from the mouth of victory.

By: uncanny hengeman

uncanny hengeman — Mon, 24 Aug 2009 05:08:58 -0800

rmd1023 - that anything to do with the fan who tried to catch a foul ball in an important playoff game and ended up spoiling a legitimate catch? Something to do with a "curse"? Only a few years ago. Poor bugger had to be escorted from the ground and has received death threats since. [if I recall correctly... I don't know the first thing about baseball, but even that made the sports news in Oz]

By: languagehat

languagehat — Mon, 24 Aug 2009 05:10:01 -0800

> Sports Illustrated article about the back to back unassisted triple plays, interviewing the players sixty years later. Thanks for that (and for "Bruntlett to Bruntlett to Bruntlett"). > Basically, what the Infield Fly rules states is that if there's an infield fly, everyone treats the ball as if the fielder has caught it. eriko: That's the best explanation of the infield fly rule I think I've seen; I was recently trying to explain it to someone and didn't do as good a job. Great rules citation for the triple play, too! > Any non-usians looking for a baseball team should pledge fidelity to the Yankees. You mean: Any non-usians looking for eternal damnation should pledge fidelity to the Yankees.

By: mathlete

mathlete — Mon, 24 Aug 2009 05:26:33 -0800

rmd1023 - that anything to do with the fan who tried to catch a foul ball in an important playoff game and ended up spoiling a legitimate catch? Something to do with a "curse"? Only a few years ago. Poor bugger had to be escorted from the ground and has received death threats since. That fan was Steve Bartman and the team was the Chicago Cubs. This happened is 2003. Video. On the next play, the shortstop booted a double play ball. The next day, they lost Game 7 to lose the series after being up 3 games to 1 in a best of 7 series. The Boston Red Sox, however, have won two World Series in recent years, while the Cubs last World Series win is still 1908.

By: koeselitz

koeselitz — Mon, 24 Aug 2009 06:01:52 -0800

vrakatar: Any non-usians looking for a baseball team should pledge fidelity to the Yankees. The parademons will be merciful to all who pledge. ... and non-UKians looking for a football team should pledge fidelity to Manchester United, and non-Italians looking for a football team should pledge fidelity to FC Milan, and non-Spaniards looking for a football team should pledge fidelity to Real Madrid, &c.

By: rmd1023

rmd1023 — Mon, 24 Aug 2009 06:19:08 -0800

Uncanny Hengeman: nope. the "snatching defeat from the jaws of victory" refers to the (former?) habit the red sox had of making it to the last game of a series (league pennant or world series) and then losing. mathlete: GO CUBS! 2010 will be THE YEAR OF THE CUBS. i really wanted to see a red sox/cubs series a few years back. i figured the intersecting "this team cannot win" fields would've created a black hole that sucked up both stadia.

By: koeselitz

koeselitz — Mon, 24 Aug 2009 06:22:59 -0800

I'm sure this has absolutely nothing to do with hometown loyalty, but I have to say that, while I admire Brunlett's feat, it was a hell of a lot snappier the last time there was an unassisted triple play - when it was done by our man Troy Tulowitzki, then still just a rookie. Take a gander, and don't forget to watch the video. With Brunlett, there's this 'oh-wait-will-you-catch-me?' moment with the runner where he thinks for a moment he might get off with dodging; but the runner in Troy's triple play takes one look at the feckless kid running him down and just throws his hands up in defeat. And then Troy hops back on the base and throws the out at first - apparently just in case three outs aren't enough to retire the side. Not to mention that this unassisted triple play has a little more innate dignity given that it was against the Braves and not the Mets. I tell ya, that kid has had his ups and downs, but he's got real heart. He hit for the cycle just the other week. Just as long as he keeps shaving off that weird phantom chin-beard thing... what the hell is with that thing?

By: This Guy

This Guy — Mon, 24 Aug 2009 06:26:59 -0800

So, the Infield Fly (defined in Rule 2.00) Rules I love reading baseball rules. They're so...dry. Last night I was watching the Yankees/Red Sox game, and CC Sabathia caught a runner off 1st base, and threw him out in a motion that, to me, seemed like a balk mainly because of my very very fuzzy understanding of the rule. So I checked the rules for a balk at Wikipedia. Seriously, check those out, and see how you can parse them. There are 16(!) balkable actions. This is why I could never be an ump. Or a pitcher, but I think there are some other, more important reasons than "not understanding the balk."

By: mathlete

mathlete — Mon, 24 Aug 2009 06:45:33 -0800

mathlete: GO CUBS! 2010 will be THE YEAR OF THE CUBS. i really wanted to see a red sox/cubs series a few years back. i figured the intersecting "this team cannot win" fields would've created a black hole that sucked up both stadia. I am a Cubs fan. I think 2008 was their best chance since 2003. Hopefully, with the new owner situation sorted out, things will start to look better. it was a hell of a lot snappier the last time there was an unassisted triple play - when it was done by our man Troy Tulowitzki The last time was by Asdrubal Cabrera in 2008. Diving stop, plus he threw the ball to a fan as he was coming in the dugout. This is why I could never be an ump. Or a pitcher, but I think there are some other, more important reasons than "not understanding the balk." It's almost easier to say what you can do, rather than what you can't. Umpires still get it wrong all the time, though, at least at the lower levels. When I played in high school, I got called for two balks that absolutely were not balks. My coach was thrown out of the game for arguing one of them.

By: koeselitz

koeselitz — Mon, 24 Aug 2009 06:48:48 -0800

vrakatar: The Yankees will exterminate the Rangers. The Yankees will Exterminate the Redsux. The Yankees will EXTERMINATE EXTERMINATE EXTERMINATE Heh. Anyway, if you're a Yankee fan, you may find these interesting:

Some great action footage of famous New York Yankees.

This very revealing interview with George Steinbrenner regarding his outlook on the '09 postseason.

A good rundown of the Yankees' recent series against the Boston Red Sox.

By: offtheroad

offtheroad — Mon, 24 Aug 2009 06:54:53 -0800

Bruntlett is on steroids Murphy and Castillo had money on the Phils Selig needed something to distract from the 20th anniversary of the Pete Rose ban #conspiracy ;)

By: koeselitz

koeselitz — Mon, 24 Aug 2009 06:58:57 -0800

This Guy: I love reading baseball rules. They're so...dry. Last night I was watching the Yankees/Red Sox game, and CC Sabathia caught a runner off 1st base, and threw him out in a motion that, to me, seemed like a balk mainly because of my very very fuzzy understanding of the rule. So I checked the rules for a balk at Wikipedia. Seriously, check those out, and see how you can parse them. There are 16(!) balkable actions. This is why I could never be an ump. Or a pitcher, but I think there are some other, more important reasons than "not understanding the balk." I've always found that interesting, too - and all the more so in the contrast between the complex and careful system of rules developed in baseball and the completely different system in another very interesting and popular sport: soccer. See, in soccer, it's almost the opposite. For one thing: did you know that the rules of soccer specify no positions whatsoever? They're mostly just tradition and conventions that seem to work well; there are a few rules about positioning (mostly the offsides rule) but other than that you could have your players line up in a long row and call every position "the peanut handler" for all the rules care. The other big difference: the rules in soccer reside in the referee, who is essentially the supreme ruler of the game. This is why when people fall down in soccer they try very hard to look ridiculously pathetic - and they're always looking at the referee when they're doing it - so that he'll call the play in their favor; there's no review, no input from other referees, no consultation and consideration, no 'option to dispute the call' - if a referee gives you a red card and ejects you because he doesn't like your haircut, he's well entitled, and there's really nothing you can do about it beyond venting endlessly afterwards. Of course, people do tend to get somewhat passionate about crappy refs, so FIFA knows it's pretty crucial to keep their referees on point, but on the field? They're god, and their word is the law.

By: grubi

grubi — Mon, 24 Aug 2009 07:09:05 -0800

There's no review, no input from other referees, no consultation and consideration, no 'option to dispute the call' Yeah, well, koeslitz, in America, we believe in a little something called democracy.

By: markkraft

markkraft — Mon, 24 Aug 2009 07:10:18 -0800

I did one of those once in high school, largely by accident. It was quite easy, and yet a lot of people got excited about it for no particularly good reason.

By: markkraft

markkraft — Mon, 24 Aug 2009 07:12:14 -0800

... oh, and I wasn't particularly good at baseball. I could, however, catch a ball most of the time when hit right to me.

By: kirkaracha

kirkaracha — Mon, 24 Aug 2009 07:30:08 -0800

His post game comments said as much. Really? Because if he's so slow/stupid that a catcher runs him down at second base, it's pretty much all Pujols' fault. The catcher had to run twice as far--in catcher's gear--as Pujols would have had to to return to first.

By: Mister_A

Mister_A — Mon, 24 Aug 2009 07:54:45 -0800

All you need to know about the 2009 Mets.

By: Mister_A

Mister_A — Mon, 24 Aug 2009 07:57:55 -0800

Oh, and I think the Phillies are the best offense in baseball, though statistically they rank 4th in runs scored. It's the timeliness of their scoring that amazes me.

By: klangklangston

klangklangston — Mon, 24 Aug 2009 08:26:01 -0800

"Any non-usians looking for a baseball team should pledge fidelity to the Yankees. The parademons will be merciful to all who pledge." "I dunno, I'm thinking about rooting for the Empire." "The Empire?" "Yeah, I mean, look at the line-up they've got. Taggi and Motti, Moff Tarkin..." "They're the Empire!" "...Darth Vader. I think Vader's really gonna do great stuff this year. Have you seen his force choke?" "I've seen the force choke. It's evil." "I know! Totally sweet. And they're building this new Death Star. It's the most expensive Death Star ever constructed, but they're sure to win the playoffs with it." "Death Stars always choke in the playoffs." "They destroyed Alderaan." "The Alderaan Nationals. C'mon, you don't even live in the Empire!" "I know some people who do." "Yeah, but they root for the Rebels." "The Rebels will never win. Not with Akbar in the dugout. The Empire even got Boba Fett as a free agent!"

By: klangklangston

klangklangston — Mon, 24 Aug 2009 08:30:59 -0800

"Unfortunately, no. I've seen a few, but once the first batsmen is out then the ball is dead and it's a case of the fieldsman going thru the motions. Or just making sure, lest the first batsman be given not out." Only the bowler can get hat tricks, right? So, like, if it was the keeper who got the batters out on three successive balls, that'd still count as a hat trick for the bowler, and he'd just buy the keeper drinks?

By: exogenous

exogenous — Mon, 24 Aug 2009 08:38:24 -0800

"They destroyed Alderaan." "The Alderaan Nationals." Washingtonist

By: Mister_A

Mister_A — Mon, 24 Aug 2009 08:45:29 -0800

I should point out, Klang, that the Empire actually allowed the Emperor to walk and he's now managing the Dantooine Dodgers!

By: Navelgazer

Navelgazer — Mon, 24 Aug 2009 09:10:42 -0800

"The Alderaan Nationals." The 2003 Detroit Tigers give me hope that within a few years, the Nats could be a contender. Not much hope, though.

By: klangklangston

klangklangston — Mon, 24 Aug 2009 09:22:34 -0800

"I should point out, Klang, that the Empire actually allowed the Emperor to walk and he's now managing the Dantooine Dodgers!" Gary Sheffield used the same negotiating tactic. "Strike me down and I shall become more powerful than you could possibly imagine."

By: Mental Wimp

Mental Wimp — Mon, 24 Aug 2009 10:12:38 -0800

Balk actions Most basically, a pitcher is restricted to a certain set of motions and one of two basic pitching positions before and during a pitch; if these are violated, a balk is called. With a runner on base and the pitcher on or astride (with one leg on each side of) the rubber, it is a balk[2] when the pitcher: • while intentionally walking a batter, or at any other time, releases a pitch while the catcher is out of his box with one or both feet; this is rarely called, though, especially on an intentional walk; • unnecessarily delays the game; Seems like it would effect the second bulleted item if the umps would call the first bulleted item, no?

By: Mental Wimp

Mental Wimp — Mon, 24 Aug 2009 10:25:50 -0800

The list of times this has happened, nearly all of them were 2nd base or shortstops, which makes perfect sense. But two of them were first basemen, and I don't understand how a guy at 1st could do it. I can only imagine that the 1st baseman, for whatever reason, was not holding the runner on 1st and was close enough to 2nd base to be able to get there before the 2nd base runner returned: Catch the ball, tag the 1st base runner with the same motion and run to 2nd. But maybe there are other explanations? Class?

By: Night_owl

Night_owl — Mon, 24 Aug 2009 11:30:07 -0800

Standing on or astride the rubber without the ball is often not called and is part of the "hidden ball trick" (where the pitcher hands the ball to a fielder during a conference on the mound with the intent to tag a runner out when the fielder returns to his base). According to the rule, the runner should not be called out but should instead be awarded a base due to the balk if the pitcher stands on the rubber prior to the fielder revealing the ball and applying the tag. From the wikipedia Balk article linked above. You can do this? Whoa. That seems.... Whoa.

By: Mental Wimp

Mental Wimp — Mon, 24 Aug 2009 14:04:15 -0800

By the way, these baseball threads are some of my favorites here on The Blue.

By: waitingtoderail

waitingtoderail — Mon, 24 Aug 2009 15:45:51 -0800

I, personally, am a big fan of the Immaculate Inning - a pitcher striking out all three batters on nine pitches. Has only happened 42 times, last time on April 20 by A.J. Burnett of the Yankees vs. the Florida Marlins.

By: muddgirl

muddgirl — Mon, 24 Aug 2009 16:30:36 -0800

Catch the ball, tag the 1st base runner with the same motion and run to 2nd. What would make this even more rare is that neither the 2nd baseman nor the shortstop is covering 2nd base?

By: eriko

eriko — Mon, 24 Aug 2009 16:52:31 -0800

Once a batter is out the ball is dead until the new batsman takes his crease (that word you were looking for) and the bowler begins his runup. While the ball is dead you cannot be given out. Correct. Indeed, for a long time, the definition of a caught ball was one that was under the control of a fielder until it was disposed of. So, after a catch, a cricket fielder would throw the ball into the air, thus "disposing" it and proving the catch. This is no longer required, but many crickters still do this today -- because after they've caught the ball, there's nothing else to be done, and throwing the ball is a nice way to celebrate a wicket. Interesting Comparison: There are the Official Baseball Rules that govern baseball, but there are the Laws of Cricket that govern cricket. Seriously, check those out, and see how you can parse them. There are 16(!) balkable actions. Not really that many, or, if you read cleverly, far more. They all boil down to "you can't fake one way and throw another, or fake the pitch, when you are the pitcher." There's one exception, which I'll mention below. First: you can't fake a pitch -- once you start your motion, you have to pitch the ball to the plate. Second: you can't throw or fake a throw to an unoccupied base, except to make a play (the runner went too early, the pitcher can turn and throw the ball to the empty base the runner is trying to reach, or the pitcher can throw to an empty base as part of an appeal.) A combination of these two is that once you've stepped towards a base, that's the only place you can throw/pitch. You do not need to step off the rubber to throw to a base, you just need to step towards the base before you throw. Third: you can't throw an illegal pitch, defined as a quick pitch or a pitch with your foot off the rubber. Fourth: you have to face the batter while pitching to him (no behind the back pitches.) Fifth: you can't go into your pitching motion when you are not on the rubber -- though it would be a very odd umpire that would call you if you went into the stretch when you weren't on the mound. Sixth: you can't make any motion that looks like a pitch without the ball, including standing on or standing astride the rubber.* Seventh: you can't let go, or even pull your hand off, the ball once you're in the pitching position, unless you pitch the ball or throw to a base. Yes, this means if you go into the stretch and drop the ball, or a gust of wind knocks you off the rubber, you've balked. Yes, both have happened. Finally, Eighth: If you're using the Set position to pitch, you have to come fully set and stop before actually pitching -- this is *the* most common balk. Stretch pitchers don't have this issue, but Set pitchers have a better chance for the pickoff, as long as they do it right. All the others are just restatements of the above. Throwing to the catcher out of the box is faking the pitch -- you're in the motion and intentionally fail to deliver the pitch home and quick pitching (pitching before the catcher and batter are set) and so forth. Technically, a pitcher delaying the game commits a balk, but only if players are on base. Usually, this won't be called as a balk, though -- first, the pitcher will be warned, then the pitcher will be ejected. Really, the balk rule boils down to this -- you can't make the runners think you are ready to deliver the ball to the plate, or make them think you are actually doing so, when you have no intent of actually doing so. * Yes, kids, the hidden ball trick is basically illegal. If the runner takes the lead when the pitcher's off the mound, then he deserves to be out, but standing over the pitching rubber without the ball is a balk, and the moment that 1B tags the runner taking the lead and shows the ball to the 1B Umpire, the runner is going to win one free trip to the Next Base, all taxes paid, runner must be present to win.

By: klangklangston

klangklangston — Mon, 24 Aug 2009 17:16:48 -0800

"* Yes, kids, the hidden ball trick is basically illegal. If the runner takes the lead when the pitcher's off the mound, then he deserves to be out, but standing over the pitching rubber without the ball is a balk, and the moment that 1B tags the runner taking the lead and shows the ball to the 1B Umpire, the runner is going to win one free trip to the Next Base, all taxes paid, runner must be present to win." Except that in the hidden ball trick, the pitcher doesn't stand astride the rubber, because he's waiting for the first baseman to return to his position, where he tags the runner. Ideally, the pitcher stands just off the rubber, closer to first base, with his hands at his sides. Which is not a balk.

By: mathlete

mathlete — Mon, 24 Aug 2009 19:17:31 -0800

"His post game comments said as much." Really? Because if he's so slow/stupid that a catcher runs him down at second base, it's pretty much all Pujols' fault. The catcher had to run twice as far--in catcher's gear--as Pujols would have had to to return to first. Uh, no. You should watch the video. It's pretty much all Ryan's fault and he admitted it after the game. If you're the lead runner and you are stealing, you can't stop halfway and start running back. He hung Pujols out to dry on that one. If he starts running back to first, there's a chance they get Ryan at second (2 outs, runner on 1st) and then maybe get Pujols too (3 outs). The best they can hope for in that situation is 2 outs, runner on 2nd. Plus, Ryan was going back and forth between going to 2nd and going to 3rd. Only he knows what the hell he was thinking. And Pujols was actually out before the tag, when Ryan and he were touching 2nd at the same time. Also, the catcher ran about 130 feet. 2nd to 1st is 90 feet.

By: mathlete

mathlete — Mon, 24 Aug 2009 19:41:52 -0800

Except that in the hidden ball trick, the pitcher doesn't stand astride the rubber, because he's waiting for the first baseman to return to his position, where he tags the runner. Ideally, the pitcher stands just off the rubber, closer to first base, with his hands at his sides. Which is not a balk. Indeed. If you look at this incident from the College World Series, or read this article about the last time it happened in the majors (last time if you don't count Lugo's play as the real hidden ball trick), you'll see/read that the pitcher was not on the mound.

By: eriko

eriko — Mon, 24 Aug 2009 19:53:42 -0800

Except that in the hidden ball trick, the pitcher doesn't stand astride the rubber, because he's waiting for the first baseman to return to his position, where he tags the runner. Quoting myself: If the runner takes the lead when the pitcher's off the mound, then he deserves to be out The hidden ball trick was to get the runner to take a lead, because they thought the ball was at the mound. Taking a lead when the pitcher's not on the mound -- and thus, is not constrained by the balk rule -- is tantamount to suicide, and if a fielder is, in fact, holding the ball, it is suicide. If you're that dumb, you deserve to be out -- staying on the bag until the pitcher stand on the mound is Baseball 101.

By: ethnomethodologist

ethnomethodologist — Mon, 24 Aug 2009 20:50:17 -0800

This is even more rare than "perfect games" for pitchers, of which there have been 18. But it doesn't make it nearly as impressive. A perfect game requires a lot of skill and some--well, maybe a lot--of luck. This triple play required almost no skill--a high school second basemen could have caught that liner--and a HUGE amount of luck. This triple play is a curiosity. A perfect game puts you in the history books.

By: klangklangston

klangklangston — Mon, 24 Aug 2009 22:35:09 -0800

Fucking Tigers were up 10-0, and are now desperately trying to lose (10-7 in the top of the 9th).

By: klangklangston

klangklangston — Mon, 24 Aug 2009 23:23:08 -0800

Oh, the secret of the Tigers—complain publicly, and they'll win to spite you. (Though it might just be me—I went to 11 games in that 40-win season, and the first nine they won. I was the human good luck charm. they needed to buy me season tickets! The first loss gave me doubt; the second loss confirmed it. I don't know if cricket has insane superstitions, but baseball fosters them like no other American sport. I had a friend who had his oranges and cornflakes perfectly apportioned for the playoff run a few years back, because they scored runs every time he finished an orange wedge and their pitching was better when he ate cornflakes. He kept this up through the playoffs, and while it wasn't enough to win—no one man's superstitions ever are—it kept working until the World Series. There must have been some Cardinals fan eating anti-corn flakes and anti-orange wedges, that sone of a bitch.)

By: languagehat

languagehat — Tue, 25 Aug 2009 06:32:55 -0800

For the famous sixth game of the '86 Series, I avoided my apartment because I didn't want to be distracted by non-baseball fans, however well-meaning, and went down to the Village to watch it with my drunken pal Jonathan. Around the time Mitchell singled in the tenth, we became terrified of jinxing whatever incredible thing might be happening over at Shea, so we froze in position on the couch, unwilling even to straighten out our backs or reach for the bottle (we were pretty drunk by then). When Knight scored and the comeback win was complete, we ran outside and mafficked with the multitudes. Never before or since have I felt like so much of a New Yorker.

By: uncanny hengeman

uncanny hengeman — Tue, 25 Aug 2009 18:34:57 -0800

"mafficked" Consider that stolen.

By: uncanny hengeman

uncanny hengeman — Tue, 25 Aug 2009 18:58:13 -0800

tkchrist changed that to this handsome looking gent, Mark Kerr, via MeMail. But it was the same documentary where Mark Coleman featured heavily. According to his Wiki he has never fought Fedor. I'll be stuffed who it was that kneed him in the head [yes, I said elbowed above but now that I think about it, it might have been knees]. I could have sworn it was Fedor. Definitely a non-English speaking Eastern European. Their "conversation" in the hallway was lots of hand waving and bowing.

By: uncanny hengeman

uncanny hengeman — Tue, 25 Aug 2009 19:00:44 -0800

WRONG THREAD, SORRY