I thought this was important to share in light of JD Vance and Stephen Miller, among others, increasingly using the language of holy war when they talk about Democrats.

Some hopeful signs that this is an overreach: parts of the right are reacting very badly to Pam Bondi's assertation that the US Government would be prosecuting "hate speech" against Charlie Kirk.

Just as when gun rights orgs pushed back against the idea that trans people should be stripped of the right to bear arms, parts of the right are pushing back against the idea that the government has the right to regulate hate speech.

This is what is colloquially called "hopium" or "copium" but I really just hope that the admin overreaches (yet again) and triggers a huge backlash (yet again).
posted by subdee at 9:38 AM on September 17 [11 favorites]

Had some other thoughts on political violence and the current moment that I posted to tumblr, in the interests of time I'll just link them here:


https://subdee.tumblr.com/post/794952090455769088/make-billionaires-pay

https://subdee.tumblr.com/post/794498186887741440/americas-reichstag-fire
posted by subdee at 9:41 AM on September 17 [2 favorites]

Sorry to threadsit, but I also wanted to highlight this (via the Lever):

The new defense bill allows guns-for-hire at the border.

More people should be worried about what happens when you allow a mercenary army into this country. Donald Trump wasn¡¯t able to use the national guard as his private army without tons of pushback so this will be the obvious next step.
posted by subdee at 9:44 AM on September 17 [2 favorites]

Donald Trump wasn¡¯t able to use the national guard as his private army without tons of pushback so this will be the obvious next step.

That's what ICE is for; it's basically a paramilitary police force.
posted by lalochezia at 9:48 AM on September 17 [5 favorites]

In a world of apples and kisses and shoes, a lot of people would for terrifying and totally inexplicable reasons rather have a war with actual killing.
posted by Frowner at 9:58 AM on September 17 [18 favorites]

I think this has a real chance to backfire - mainly because the economy has also been getting worse. Though Wall Street seems to believe that the Fed will cut rates soon and whether that money is enough to bail the Trump admin out of their own crisis remains to be seen.

So far voters, the well informed voters anyway, aren't buyng it. Dems won or overperformed in 43 of 44 special elections and recently the number of registered Ds passed the number of registered Rs for the first time. The problem with extending this trend to midterms is 1) violence, vote rigging and voter suppression and 2) it's the well-informed who vote in special elections and that's not Trump's core base.
posted by subdee at 10:05 AM on September 17 [4 favorites]

Again, maybe better: I often heard Commonwealth Club simulcasts on local radio, but this one with Peter Thiel talking about an antichrist is different: https://sfstandard.com/2025/09/16/peter-thiel-antichrist-san-francisco/
posted by the Real Dan at 10:09 AM on September 17 [4 favorites]

In a world of apples and kisses and shoes, a lot of people would for terrifying and totally inexplicable reasons rather have a war with actual killing.

I can't speculate as to other people's motives, but Peter Thiel would prefer the second thing mainly because he is a sociopath who thinks that rules shouldn't apply to him.
posted by TheWhiteSkull at 10:21 AM on September 17 [8 favorites]

Oh, I see Thiel has hit the ¡°finding religion¡± part of the mid-life crisis earlier than the other tech-lords - Bezos is too busy getting married, Musk is too high, and Ellison is still buying companies and playing shogun. What a weird trip it must be when every dumb underbaked idea that falls out of your mouth can be turned into a four part lecture series.
posted by The River Ivel at 10:31 AM on September 17 [15 favorites]

I am once again (and more frequently than ever these days) reminded of the time I was in an otherwise empty building in San Francisco in 2001 recording a radio segment with Thiel for CNet Radio.

I had a golden chance to take this guy off the board but I was a young radio engineer and he wasn't as open about his scheming yet so we shook hands and went our separate ways.
posted by turbowombat at 10:36 AM on September 17 [13 favorites]

I've been thinking a lot about a line half remembered from the film "The Lives of Others" about the crumbling Stasi surveillance state of East Germany. At the end, when the government is finally exposed, a character looks at one of the corrupt apparatchiks and says "How did we let a bunch of idiots rule over us for so long?"

Anyway, a reminder: These people are deeply unpopular. Trump net approval is currently at -17, the lowest of his presidency.
posted by gwint at 10:50 AM on September 17 [15 favorites]

I'm so tired of this fucking psychopath.
posted by Smedly, Butlerian jihadi at 10:50 AM on September 17 [16 favorites]

Think of the God Complex these scumbags could cultivate by spending their massive wealth on something beneficial to Humanity. Statues of them would be built, shrines dedicated to them, heavenly bodies named after them. A legacy to stand the test of time, but they choose these fantasies, sit on their money and become more and more irrelevant.
posted by hairless ape at 10:52 AM on September 17 [12 favorites]

Yeah i think about that often. We remember builders not hoarders. The current crop of technocrats largely just bought other peoples inventions and convinced the world they were the ones that made them, which made them rich but all kind of one-trick ponies that have no idea what to do with the mountain of gold growing underneath them. Who builds a shrine to a dragon?
posted by bookwo3107 at 11:03 AM on September 17 [8 favorites]

Frowner: "In a world of apples and kisses and shoes, a lot of people would for terrifying and totally inexplicable reasons rather have a war with actual killing."

Your future dream is a shopping scheme
posted by chavenet at 11:04 AM on September 17

As a married gay man, Thiel's playing with fire with this appeal to christian fundamentalists.
posted by Fizzy Kimchi at 11:20 AM on September 17 [9 favorites]

One of the many things that currently astonishes me, its that the evangelical right has been terrified of the antichrist (no such thing) showing up and destroying the country, that when the guy in orange, diapers, makeup, cowardice, unreal avarice, child rape, regular rape, failure and megalomania showed up - with the freaking mark (of the maga on the hats) that they decided to worship him instead of their supposed actual lord and savior.
posted by WatTylerJr at 11:23 AM on September 17 [25 favorites]

That¡¯s because the Antichrist tells stupid people they¡¯re better than smart people and thus amasses an army of morons. It¡¯s a classic! Happens every generation or two since forever. Sometime they are presidents or prime ministers, sometimes kings, sometimes popes, it¡¯s all the same modus operandi.
posted by seanmpuckett at 11:27 AM on September 17 [9 favorites]

Who else would the evangelical right worship? Surely not Jesus, he was all about helping the poor, the unfortunate, the downtrodden, the sinner, the hungry and the sick. They hate what that guy stood for.
posted by mrgoat at 11:30 AM on September 17 [13 favorites]

Weird as it may sound, I think this turn towards the Anti-Christ by Thiel may be for the best. Hear me out...

If Thiel focused his public talks on something that could be effective - say, some human-sounding complaint about regulation in California - it could cause problems. He could tear down good things. He has the audience, he could rally people to his cause, it could cause change. Thiel using his influence with the public intelligently would be bad.

Thankfully, Thiel is throwing away his influence at the moment with this dumb, essentially unsalvageable, turn towards esoteric Christianity. Not one person was willing to go on record saying "He's right, the Anti-Christ is the biggest problem facing America today." It's just too ridiculous to gain traction or galvanize anyone. His fans are obviously humoring him.

Personally I hope Thiel spends 50 years on this. I hope he writes a dense 10,000 page magnum opus on it, replete with biblical references and Victorian-style footnotes. Keep it up, Peter. Make this your life's mission. Don't ever stop.
posted by julianeon at 11:56 AM on September 17 [17 favorites]

Bonus if he seals himself in a monastery cistern to do it, emerging only after the world has forgotten who he is.
posted by mrgoat at 12:09 PM on September 17 [13 favorites]

There is no antichrist on the way
posted by Thorzdad at 12:23 PM on September 17 [1 favorite]

One of the many things that currently astonishes me, its that the evangelical right has been terrified of the antichrist (no such thing) showing up and destroying the country, that when the guy in orange, diapers, makeup, cowardice, unreal avarice, child rape, regular rape, failure and megalomania showed up - with the freaking mark (of the maga on the hats) that they decided to worship him instead of their supposed actual lord and savior.

I'm not in religious circles so this is the literal first time I have made this connection, but (AI Summary):

Public photographs show that former President Donald Trump's right hand has been covered with makeup in an apparent attempt to conceal a prominent, recurring bruise. The issue has attracted significant attention and speculation online, particularly during his public appearances in 2025.

AND

Mark of the Beast from the Book of Revelation is prophesied to be on the right hand or forehead, but this is not a literal mark specific to any Pentecostal belief or practice. Pentecostal believers interpret this mark in Revelation as a symbol of allegiance to the Beast and rejection of God's will, which manifests in either one's thoughts (forehead) or actions (hand).
posted by subdee at 12:27 PM on September 17 [5 favorites]

The Rapture is what they are really looking forward to. The Christian fundamentalists can almost taste it.
posted by DJZouke at 12:59 PM on September 17 [4 favorites]

Well they're all in for a nasty surprise, is all I have to say.
posted by Frowner at 1:07 PM on September 17 [9 favorites]

I'm a little bummed that I'm not an ultraconservative xtian, because man! There's so much there! His son-in-law owns 666 on 5th Ave! His followers wear his mark on their forehead! He denies every lesson taught by Christ! It's wild!
posted by Rudy_Wiser at 1:08 PM on September 17 [16 favorites]

I named my company that spies on everything and everybody after a tool used by an evil wizard to communicate with a super powerful demon. Let me tell you about the Antichrist and why you should give me even more power and influence.

No. Really? Seriously? uck ALL THE WAY off.
posted by Smedly, Butlerian jihadi at 1:14 PM on September 17 [8 favorites]

Surely not Jesus, he was all about helping the poor, the unfortunate, the downtrodden, the sinner, the hungry and the sick. They hate what that guy stood for.

yeah the american pseudo-christians are unlikely to follow the literal teachings of a poor jewish palestinian shit-disturber. kyle, karen, and kevin would probably call the cops on the guy if he showed up preaching on their doorstep.
posted by nobody_truncates at 1:23 PM on September 17 [9 favorites]

Shit, they¡¯d call the cops if he showed up preaching on their neighbor¡¯s doorstep, or even in an officially sanctioned house of worship they don¡¯t attend.
posted by Ice Cream Socialist at 1:35 PM on September 17 [4 favorites]

? Once we label our adversaries in these cosmic terms¡ªall good versus all evil¡ª

Far off-topic but in school my best friend's last name was Allgood
posted by anadem at 2:08 PM on September 17

Until last week I was calling Charlie Kirk the Antichrist but I guess I was wrong. The whole thing with the Antichrist is that he¡¯s good looking, charismatic, and telling people things that appear in some ways righteous while he¡¯s leading them down the path of hate and conflict. That¡¯s exactly what Charlie McDickhole was doing. If the Antichrist was easy to spot it would defeat the whole concept. Hasn¡¯t anyone ever seen Omen III: The Final Conflict?
posted by caviar2d2 at 3:19 PM on September 17 [4 favorites]

It¡¯s almost like if you do enough speed you turn into a Nazi and start having paranoid delusions¡­
posted by youthenrage at 6:01 PM on September 17 [5 favorites]

I thought it was strange for a guy who proudly states that he read Lord of the Rings ten times naming one of his companies after an object that drove insane one guy, Denethor, and corrupted another, Saruman. The palantiri was both a communication tool and to show things that were very open to false impressions by the viewer.

I am waiting for the Scouring of the Shire where returning hobbit war veterans drive away gangster like Saruman, renamed Sharky and Grima Wormtongue.
posted by jadepearl at 12:58 PM on September 18 [1 favorite]

The Numenoreans may have been tempted and fallen, but Thiel is built different!
posted by Frowner at 1:15 PM on September 18 [2 favorites]

After all, what is the lesson of Lord of The Rings but that humans totally, totally CAN handle extremely powerful magical objects with NO PROBLEMS.
posted by Frowner at 1:15 PM on September 18 [3 favorites]

I can't speculate as to other people's motives, but Peter Thiel would prefer the second thing mainly because he is a sociopath who thinks that rules shouldn't apply to him.
posted by TheWhiteSkull

Well he is in for a very nasty surprise when he outlives his usefulness to the New Regime, they need some fresh targets to purge, and gets made an offer he can't refuse to visit R?hm, presumably in Valhalla.
posted by Pouteria at 11:11 PM on September 18

As a married gay man, Thiel's playing with fire with this appeal to christian fundamentalists.

Deep down he hates himself, and thus hates everything else
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 7:18 PM on October 1

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